With the announcement of the Canon T2i/550D What Do You Expect 6 Months From Now?

S

skital

Well-known member
The Canon T2i is quite a surprise to me. I had just found out about the Canon T1i literally days before the T2i and was watching clips of it in action on Vimeo. I was quite impressed, but the lack of manual controls scared me away.

However, since it was so much cheaper than the 7D and the footage was so pretty I thought maybe I could get away with the aperture lock trick and whatever else I needed to do, but then out of nowhere I read about the Canon T2i being released that is supposed to pretty much equal the 7D. It seems like only a few months ago the 7D was released (how long has it been now?)!!!

So, it has got me to thinking? If something of pretty close to equal HD video to the 7D can now be had in a DSLR for half the price what do you all think we can expect from a DSLR in 6 months or even a year from now at this rate?

This reminds me of the home theater projector war that seemed to start about 6 or 7 years ago starting with the Infocus X1, which was a 4:3 800x600p projector. Before it good home theater projectors were virtually unaffordable and even it cost a grand. Fast forward about 5 years and high quality 720 projectors were making their way from $4000+ to about $1,000-$2000. A couple years after that 720p projectors that were $4,500+ that smoked the $1,000 X1 were hitting $500 on Ebay and an online sites. Now even a good 1080p projector can be had for under a grand brand new. It has just been a back and forth war of improving on/off contrast, resolution, etc and all at better and better price points each year. Seems to be that way with DSLRs now, which is great!

It took a long time, but it seems there is an intense price/performance war going on in DSLRs with HD video. So, now that we have basically a 7D video performer at the $899 price point what is next at near this price point? Simply equal video at an even lower price point or maybe slow motion capabilty or something else you thinK?
 
skital said:
So, now that we have basically a 7D video performer at the $899 price point what is next at near this price point? Simply equal video at an even lower price point or maybe slow motion capabilty or something else you thinK?
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$799 body only. There are plenty of issues with the current 5D/7D/T2i video capabilities to keep Canon and others busy for years to come. Lets see if they keep the momentum going and tackle the issues with small steps or giant leaps. Hopefully the latter.
 
There are a couple of things to consider. One is that we are not really the target market for this camera. To a photographer who is the primary audience for this camera, there is a huge gulf between the 7D and the T2i. The best analogy I can think of is the still camera mode in some of the sony camcorders. I'm pretty sure the quality of the still camera side is the exact same technology no matter if you get the z1u or the FX1.

The same thing applies with the video mode for the T2i. I figured it was a shrewd marketing deciision by someone in the company to make the Rebel more appealing to the consumer. If I was a soccor mom or dad, I would totally buy one of these things to film a school play and take pictures with the same unit. Also, since this is primarily a stills camera, I figure Canon wanted to do this the cheapest way so instead of spending more money on R&D, they just brought over the tech from the 7D and called it a day.

Where I think you might see some movement is in the prosumer video camera market. I imagine the sales of these sub $2K wonder cams are making more than a few people at Sony a little nervous.
 
Canon will be giving cameras away for free!

I expect the next round of announcements from Canon will give us either 1)better low light, using technology similar to the 1D MkIV or 2)the ability to turn AGC off. I feel like No. 1 is more likely.

Improvements to frame rates are now virtually unnecessary. Their lineup will continue to contain at least: 1 APS-C, 1 APS-H, and 1 Full Frame camera. The read/reset times of their sensors may be decreased simply as sensor technology progresses, but I doubt that would be publicized. So skew may be a little better but not substantially so. I think aliasing will remain essentially the same.

I wonder if they will move over to the MPEG 2 codec they are now using in some of their video cameras, of if they will keep H.264. Somewhat of a wash, in my opinion.

We may also get some DIGIC V action. But would that mean a significant increase in video performance? Who knows.
 
I don't think we'll see any significant improvements in video quality, basically because to the vast majority of the target market the video is seen as at best a frivolous sideshow, and at worst a pollution.
Consider, pros who need ENG functionality and video quality will be able to afford an ENG style camcorder, while the video from current DSLRs is adequate for web streaming which is what the pros will want it for.
Low end consumers just aren't going to pay more for bits they don't need, and may well regard the current video quality as good enough.
Now in the middle, the enthusiast amateur to low end pro market there is outright hostility to video in DSLRs. (Just check out threads in The Amateur Photographer's forums). There is no way DSLR manufaturers are going to alienate this market by adding more functionality or even video quality at the expense of pushing up the price.

So basically, what we've got we've got and thats IT.
Dave
 
Its called 'milking the system' so the manufacturers make max profits. All of these cams are crippled with AGC - a circuit that has been added and has no other reason to be there
because even $300 cams can record audio-in perfectly.

As soon as a vDSLR gets released without AGC everyone will be buying that.

skital said:
It seems like only a few months ago the 7D was released (how long has it been now?)!!!
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I got my 7D last september
 
I think its a bit premature to say that DSLR video has peaked. Especially coming from this forum, I would have expected some more enthusiasm.
 
J Davis said:
Its called 'milking the system' so the manufacturers make max profits. All of these cams are crippled with AGC - a circuit that has been added and has no other reason to be there
because even $300 cams can record audio-in perfectly.

As soon as a vDSLR gets released without AGC everyone will be buying that.



I got my 7D last september
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Even if they let you disable AGC DSLRs will continue to be useless for recording sound until they get clean XLR inputs.
 
XLRs are more professional but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't get a clean sound without them.
 
Sorry, but I've had too many decades of disappointed enthusiasms to be very optimistic.
Yes Canon could bring out a cam with a digic V processor or two and their new 50 mbps 4:2:2 mpeg 2 codec, and with a scaling algorithm that doesn't result in excessive moire and artifacting. But will they? I don't know, it will depend on how much it costs and whether the core market will wear it.
I do know that expecting XLR inputs and manual level controls is just plain daft. These are Digital SLRs we're talking about, NOT video cameras, and especially not ENG cams, so get real. Yes they can record moving pictures, but that's not their reason for existing. They are there to record high megapixel stills first and foremost, video is just an addition.

This may give an idea of how enthusiast 'togs regard the 550d
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/868030/an/0/page/0#868030

Dave
 
daveswan said:
This may give an idea of how enthusiast 'togs regard the 550d
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/868030/an/0/page/0#868030
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I don't see anything out of the ordinary in that discussion. I'm primarily a stills guy and I follow most of the big forums and you hear the same kind of talk whenever a new model comes out. I wouldn't say the 550D has received any more negative reaction than what normally accompanies a release in its segment but in fact it has received a lot more acclaim than usual due to its video features.

I think the 7D and 550D and to a lesser extent the 3Ds are examples the HDSLR market has not stopped improving itself.
 
Realistically: 5D 24p firmware. Magic Lantern in 7D. Nearly identical video features in one or more new or updated Canon DSLR models.

Hopefully: New DSLR with improved codec, moire/aliasing performace, manual audio control. Or however far firmware can take the 5D/7D/T2i. Canon or another manufacturer announces a APS-C size sensor prosumer camcorder with interchangeable lenses for under $5,000.

"Unicorns Pooping Skittles" Hopefully: 2K RAW codec on "7D mkii" :grin:

In all honesty, I think that the Scarlet line up will be released sometime this year and within the following year, less expensive but similarly performing (for 1080p mastering) camera will be available elsewhere.
 
Well perhaps I'm being a grumpy old so-and-so :).
Despite the impression I may give I really do hope Canon sorts out their video. I'm thinking of getting a 7D to tide me over until Scarlet finally emerges and I decide if I can afford one.
But that thread in AP wasn't unusual, in fact a little while ago a normally very laid back member posted quite a rant on the subject, the gist of which being that if he wanted to shoot video he would use a camcorder.
OK, that may be a bit extreme but only a bare handful of members are enthusiastic as about video in DSLRs and I'm one of them:)
Dave
 
How much could Canon charge for a camera with lossless 10-bit full HD recording with no artefacts? We're asking a lot of these Cameras and there are so many things already that makes these cameras so darn good at making beautiful images. We should expect small steps rather than giant leaps.

To have proper audio volume level control or fixed hi/mid/lo settings is a small step. Less rolling shutter is a small step, better lowlight sensitivity is a small step and there are these kinda things we can expect i guess.

But they could build a proper videocamera with big sensor technology and charge much more money than what a 1D/5D/7D costs.

The directors and producers where I work love the look of the 7D and prefer it to film or RED just because the high production value we get. I'm looking forward on getting a third body to complement my 7D/GH1 combo that improves on both.
 
editman said:
How much could Canon charge for a camera with lossless 10-bit full HD recording with no artefacts?
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How much could Canon charge for a S35 1080p24 camera with mediocre image and codec? About $800. I think the Canon stills dept is using realistic pricing at the moment so ride the wave while it lasts. Its Canon's pro video and even consumer video dept that will charge an arm and a leg for stuff like that. I honestly don't think I'll be buying video gear from Canon's video division if they keep pricing stuff the way they do even if they make a S35 cam with interchangeable lenses. It will probably cost more than a S35 scarlet.
 
Next move from Canon should be the new Mega 5D with all the improvements promised in firmware update plus a few extras before June, then quietly send out the updates to the 5Ds already out. That will send the old 5D the way of the 500D, forgotten. Then Sept will bring the new 7D that will smoke the old 7D. Then a rumor will float around about the new improved 550D (like the 1500D rumor) in Oct which will be released a year from today. Then the cycle will begin all over again. The biggest winners will get their 6 month old used cameras on Ebay at 40% off.
 
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I think it might come down to if/when the RED Scarlets arrive with good still image features.

As long as RED are just a cinema camera company, Canon wont care.... but If they are pushed by the DSMC side of things.... then Canon will fight back with better video.

The idea the nikon/canon video was a response to RED announcing DSMC is a myth (in my opinion)..... but.... I think alot of pro photographers could be temped to move over to RED, if the still image feature set if strong.
 
Ian-T said:
XLRs are more professional but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't get a clean sound without them.
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Yes, but you can't rely on them to reject noise or be robust enough not to break on a shoot. I just think you have to do double system with these cameras until they get xlrs period. I think recording over an unbalaced connection should be discouraged as people with less experience come here and read these posts to learn how to do things. I always want to make sure that the traditional pro method is represented as a sound recorder is available for not much more than these beachtech and juicedlink boxes and they are better in every way except the time it takes to sync (like the h4n). Young filmmakers should just suck it up and do the work to sync the thing and not look for the easy way out. Heck they make sync plugins if you really want to have it done for you. Sorry, rant not directed at you, just the general easy way out attiude that I see around now and then.
 
shaocaholica said:
I'm happy using my $250 external recorder with 2 x XLR inputs. I don't see why its so important for this part to be part of the camera.
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I agree, double system is the way to go. I just don't think unbalanced connection boxes like beachtech or juicedlink are a good idea. They were crappy on the vx-2000, they sucked on the gl1 and they are still not a good idea today. Funny how in 15 years they still keep selling this crap (because misinformed people keep buying them)
 
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