Wiress Lav Recommendation for Interviews

[Rippie]

In that particular screen shot you would have no problem hiding the XLR cables within the drapes to then bring it back to camera.
One thing that's a bit odd here is you're wondering how to keep XLR's showing on the ground (which usually you can figure out a way to not see them (run them away from camera first)..
but you're ok with that hideous looking mic cable dangling on the guy with the black t-shirt.

That draws your eye every single time the viewer is going to see that.
Learn how to dress your lav's better on the talent, run your xlr's on the floor in ways that can be hidden from view of the wide shot.

If you absolutely decide to use wireless for what I think is a silly reason (and I always use wireless) the least $ wise solution with be the G3 (G2) systems.

 

[David W. Jones]

I have read both threads, and it sounds like a tough gig with more to overcome than just worrying about hiding mic cables.

If I might ask, who is your intended audience, and their viewing medium?

Also do you have a proposed budget in place for the needed audio gear?

If I understand correctly, you will be shooting sit-down interviews in multiple locations which may vary substantially from location to location.
It looks as though you have decided on shooting with 3 GH4 cameras rather than the 4 you were initially considering, and they will be left unattended during the shoot.
You will not be taking any lighting with you, instead you will be relying on the location's office lights and available natural light?
Audio will be recorded into a Zoom H6, and then synced with the 3 cameras in post. Will the audio recording also be left unattended during the shoot?

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Lastly, is the Zoom H6 with XLR inputs good enough for the job? That's the recorder I currently have.

Probably. If you want something awesome get the Sound Devices 663, but the Zoom is probably good enough, particularly to go with cameras like the GH4 in regards to price point. I have a Tascam DR-40 which I think is way better (and cheaper) than the Zoom H4n. One feature (among others) that I like about the DR-40 as well as other Tascam products is you get a second track recorded at -12 db to help with avoiding distortion. Kind of awesome. The Tascam 70D may also be a better option than the Zoom. I hate the Zoom H4n. The Zoom H6 I used on one shoot and the only problem we had was that I think you couldn't separate the tracks when going out to headphones, or something like that, which was quite a pain.

For sit down interviews I plug directly into my C100 cameras, which probably has better pre-amps than most of the cheaper recorders (such as the Zoom H6). The H4n's pre-amps weren't that good, but I think the H6's are a bit better.

Yes, I'd advise a boom on top of each person. The Scheops sounds great indoors, but since it's not a shotgun it doesn't have as much reach. Since your shot is pretty wide, something like the Sanken CS-3e which is a shotgun that sound better indoors than most shotguns, while still maintaining the reach of a shotgun, may be a better choice. The Schoeps should still work good at that distance, particularly if the room isn't too noisy.

Here are some photos from setups I've done so you can see mic placement.

The Schoeps CMC641 is the first mic on that list from B&H, described as being "considered by many to be the finest tool available for booming interior dialog."

chrisbernard mentioned Juiced Link. Actually, JL has been developing - seemingly forever - a solution to your issue, called "Little DARling" - see more details here:

Little DARling

Unfortunately, it's still not on the market, but hopefully it's close - if it comes out in time for your project, it could be the perfect solution.

I don't think the Little DARling will ever come to market. I'm guessing JuicedLink is an American company and American patents from Zaxcomm are keeping that product from coming to fruition. Tascam, on the other hand, is not just in America, I guess, hence why their practially identical unit to the Little DARling, the Tascam DR-10c, is currently available, but only available to buy from outside of the US. For myself, I bought one of the Tascam DR-10c's from the UK and had it shipped to America. I actually haven't used it yet because I haven't gotten around to buying a Sennheiser lav that is compatible with it yet; I'll probably get the G3 soon and then I can use that lav on it, and then later get something like a TRAM TR-50 to use with both units.

I don't think either the Tascam DR-10c or the Little DARling are ideal for this shoot setup, though, since you can't monitor the audio. Perhaps as a backup they'd work fine.

 

[andvx]

In that particular screen shot you would have no problem hiding the XLR cables within the drapes to then bring it back to camera.
One thing that's a bit odd here is you're wondering how to keep XLR's showing on the ground (which usually you can figure out a way to not see them (run them away from camera first)..
but you're ok with that hideous looking mic cable dangling on the guy with the black t-shirt.

That draws your eye every single time the viewer is going to see that.
Learn how to dress your lav's better on the talent, run your xlr's on the floor in ways that can be hidden from view of the wide shot.

If you absolutely decide to use wireless for what I think is a silly reason (and I always use wireless) the least $ wise solution with be the G3 (G2) systems.

Hi Rippie,
Thanks for your feedback.

Ideally hiding all cables is the intention. If using a lav this could be underneath the clothing. I agree the black lav on the black t-shirt is horribly noticeable and a big distraction.

Because the locations are on-site, the luxury of arranging the environment to be ideal doesn't exist. This means that moving objects around to conceal wires and cables isn't a guaranteed option.


Based on the project, do you suggest boom mics from above or wired lavaliers?



Thanks Rippie

 

[andvx]

I have read both threads, and it sounds like a tough gig with more to overcome than just worrying about hiding mic cables.

If I might ask, who is your intended audience, and their viewing medium?

Also do you have a proposed budget in place for the needed audio gear?

If I understand correctly, you will be shooting sit-down interviews in multiple locations which may vary substantially from location to location.
It looks as though you have decided on shooting with 3 GH4 cameras rather than the 4 you were initially considering, and they will be left unattended during the shoot.
You will not be taking any lighting with you, instead you will be relying on the location's office lights and available natural light?
Audio will be recorded into a Zoom H6, and then synced with the 3 cameras in post. Will the audio recording also be left unattended during the shoot?

Hi David,
Thanks for your input and thanks for reading both threads. I've tried to include as much information and detail without overloading people.

The interviews are corporate/executive, so the audience itself is primarily at this level for viewing both online and on DVD (both HD quality downgraded from 4K) so they can view at their own leisure. This is the reason the quality, angles, etc., need to be top-notch because these kind of people are used to very professional audio and video. This is also why concealing cables isn't just for them, but also for the viewer as it doesn't look very professional having cables running across the floor particularly with a wide angle shot.


No proposed budget;trying to see what options are available first.


Yes, your understanding is correct:

1. Multiple locations which may vary substantially from location to location.
2. Multiple GH4s most likely left unattended. I just purchased a couple and will get a third if the decision to go with three is made.
3. 100% reliant on the location's office lights and available natural light. Plane travel and so forth restricts what can be taken and hiring equipment on site will be a logistics nightmare.
4. Recording in H6 and synched with 2-3 cameras post and most likely left unattended.

Lastly, the lenses I am looking at are (all Panasonic):

1. Vario 12-35mm f/2.8
2. Either 2 x Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2 or 2 x LUMIX G 42.5mm f/1.7 (only one is needed if using a two cameras)

Thanks David

 

[andvx]

Probably. If you want something awesome get the Sound Devices 663, but the Zoom is probably good enough, particularly to go with cameras like the GH4 in regards to price point. I have a Tascam DR-40 which I think is way better (and cheaper) than the Zoom H4n. One feature (among others) that I like about the DR-40 as well as other Tascam products is you get a second track recorded at -12 db to help with avoiding distortion. Kind of awesome. The Tascam 70D may also be a better option than the Zoom. I hate the Zoom H4n. The Zoom H6 I used on one shoot and the only problem we had was that I think you couldn't separate the tracks when going out to headphones, or something like that, which was quite a pain.

For sit down interviews I plug directly into my C100 cameras, which probably has better pre-amps than most of the cheaper recorders (such as the Zoom H6). The H4n's pre-amps weren't that good, but I think the H6's are a bit better.

Yes, I'd advise a boom on top of each person. The Scheops sounds great indoors, but since it's not a shotgun it doesn't have as much reach. Since your shot is pretty wide, something like the Sanken CS-3e which is a shotgun that sound better indoors than most shotguns, while still maintaining the reach of a shotgun, may be a better choice. The Schoeps should still work good at that distance, particularly if the room isn't too noisy.

Here are some photos from setups I've done so you can see mic placement.

The Schoeps CMC641 is the first mic on that list from B&H, described as being "considered by many to be the finest tool available for booming interior dialog."



I don't think the Little DARling will ever come to market. I'm guessing JuicedLink is an American company and American patents from Zaxcomm are keeping that product from coming to fruition. Tascam, on the other hand, is not just in America, I guess, hence why their practially identical unit to the Little DARling, the Tascam DR-10c, is currently available, but only available to buy from outside of the US. For myself, I bought one of the Tascam DR-10c's from the UK and had it shipped to America. I actually haven't used it yet because I haven't gotten around to buying a Sennheiser lav that is compatible with it yet; I'll probably get the G3 soon and then I can use that lav on it, and then later get something like a TRAM TR-50 to use with both units.

I don't think either the Tascam DR-10c or the Little DARling are ideal for this shoot setup, though, since you can't monitor the audio. Perhaps as a backup they'd work fine.

Hi Eric,
Thanks for your input and attaching photos.

With the first photo above, was a wide angle shot used that shows the subjects from head to toe as well as the rug and coffee table?

I looked at the Tascam DR-40 before going with the H6 and the H6 did sound noticeably better. It's a huge step-up from the H4. I've also heard some fantastic recordings with a Rode NTG-3 and a DR-40, and then the same with a Rode NTG-3 and a H6, and while the recording is better with the H6, this is only slightly. This also highlights that the microphone and its placement is key, and even with a microphone like the NTG-3 which is considerably less expensive than some other microphones suggested in this thread, the audio quality and recording is exceptional. I honestly don't know how many people could discern between an NTG-3 + H6, and something that's 4-5x the price?

Also, taken from the Zoom H6 manual, "Using the L/R input mics, you can simultaneously record a backup file with a recording level that is 12 dB less than the regular recording. You can use this backup recording if an unexpected loud noise should cause the regular recording to distort, for example.".


About booming from the top, how many feet could you go above the subject's head (given the wide angle shot from head to toe) without losing audio assuming the room is relatively quiet?


Thanks Eric

 

[Bruce Watson]

A visible microphone on a jacket, tie, or blouse isn't the issue, it''s having XLR cables running across the floor into the H6 recorder. One of the camera angles will show full body shots of the host and subject together. Cables on the floor, etc., doesn't look professional.

Then... change that shot. Is there something interesting about the floor you're trying to show? How you block out your shots is up to you of course.

The challenge of booming is that the crew is small and there isn't a dedicated person able to boom, etc.

If the people are going to be sitting for the interview, you can always boom it from a c-stand. Unattended. Which is what most of the pictures people have added to this thread show. This done correctly will sound better than any lav. Highly recommended technique, this is.

Do you mean you have two G3s already or that you would buy them if you had more time?

I own two sets and only use them as a last resort. I use the Oscar Soundtech mics with them, and had them wired so they would work with the Sennheisers or with an OST XLR adapter. I use the XLR adapters 90% of the time.

 

[Rippie]

Based on the project, do you suggest boom mics from above or wired lavaliers?

You really have to figure out what's right for you. For myself I would 99% of the time have a boom overhead for this type of setting,
but I'm hired as the sound mixer and that's my sole job on set. You have to decide if you logistically can set everything up yourself.

You don't necessarily have to hide lav's but at least dress the lav cable as best as it can be.
I'm a HUGE boom guy but you need to figure out 1. your audience (are they going to care). 2. wearing to many hats at once (compromises need to be made) 3. Cost (return of investment).

Once again I am a HUGE boom guy and I rarely have a mic showing when I do need to wire people.. but that being said
If I was doing everything? Camera, sound, lighting etc, plus I know my audience doesn't give a crap?
Good chance I would just wire them and be done with it.

 

[andvx]

Then... change that shot. Is there something interesting about the floor you're trying to show? How you block out your shots is up to you of course.

The full body shot add completeness to the video. It's not a common shot probably because of the constraints it introduces which are being highlighted in this thread, but it really does stand out.

If the people are going to be sitting for the interview, you can always boom it from a c-stand. Unattended. Which is what most of the pictures people have added to this thread show. This done correctly will sound better than any lav. Highly recommended technique, this is.

It looks like this might be the best option. The NTG3 looks good at its price point, but I need to do some more research and look at some more reviews. I need to purchase two of them (host and subject), so the costs can add up very quickly.


This video review compares some several shotgun mics from the lower-end Rode to the top-end Schoeps, DPA, etc. There is definitely a difference between them side-by-side, but in isolation can people really notice? In the last part of the review the reviewer also puts the mics much higher than usual above which is potentially similar to what I am proposing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuN0hatTxxM

I own two sets and only use them as a last resort. I use the Oscar Soundtech mics with them, and had them wired so they would work with the Sennheisers or with an OST XLR adapter. I use the XLR adapters 90% of the time.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[andvx]

You really have to figure out what's right for you. For myself I would 99% of the time have a boom overhead for this type of setting,
but I'm hired as the sound mixer and that's my sole job on set. You have to decide if you logistically can set everything up yourself.

You don't necessarily have to hide lav's but at least dress the lav cable as best as it can be.
I'm a HUGE boom guy but you need to figure out 1. your audience (are they going to care). 2. wearing to many hats at once (compromises need to be made) 3. Cost (return of investment).

Once again I am a HUGE boom guy and I rarely have a mic showing when I do need to wire people.. but that being said
If I was doing everything? Camera, sound, lighting etc, plus I know my audience doesn't give a crap?
Good chance I would just wire them and be done with it.

Hi Rippie,
Yeah, it's a trade-off and compromises need to be made. Setting up the cameras isn't that difficult; particularly given how easy the GH4 is to operate and the overall advancements in cameras and filming. You can basically point and shoot most of the time if the lightning is acceptable. Also, because 4K is used it's easy to crop out unwanted parts.

Two things:

1. If wiring, is the Countryman B6 direct into the H6 via XLR a good option?
2. If booming, would the NTG-3 suffice, particularly if its a good 3 feet above the host and subject's heads? Again, this would go direct into the H6 via XLR.

Thanks Rippie

 

[Rippie]

Two things:

1. If wiring, is the Countryman B6 direct into the H6 via XLR a good option?
2. If booming, would the NTG-3 suffice, particularly if its a good 3 feet above the host and subject's heads? Again, this would go direct into the H6 via XLR.

Thanks Rippie

1. I own b6's which are a great mic (not my first choice but a live saver on noisy wardrobe) and would absolutely be a good option.
I don't own an H6 so I can't really help you there.
2. I don't own an NTG-3 but it seems enough people out there do with good results so while it's not my first choice I'm sure it would suffice.
As far as it being 3ft over the talents heads? Doubtful that will suffice but ultimately depends on the room acoustics and the volume of the on camera talent. That is LOT of headroom though.

Time to make compromises right? What's more important the quality of your actual content of your video or having an ubber wide shot that you might go to a few times during the edit?
Decisions you need to make. One trick however.. In your screenshot your master camera is looking down onto talent (tripod up higher pointing downwards). Because of that angle
you're going to lose headroom even more. As you take the tripod lower you will be able to move the microphones closer to talent while still maintaining that similar headroom.

An exaggerated example would be if you took the camera all the way to the floor pointing at a single talking head, you could actually have the microphone at the same height as their eyeballs
and it still be out of shot.
Personally if the background looks good with that angle I'd bring your tripod down a bit to gain some room..and lose just a bit of the headroom.
Most likely you'll be able to get the booms in where you need them.

 

[Felipe Henao]

Hey man your set up shows wealth, go full sound lavalier + Boompole, take decisions in post.

 

[andvx]

1. I own b6's which are a great mic (not my first choice but a live saver on noisy wardrobe) and would absolutely be a good option.
I don't own an H6 so I can't really help you there.
2. I don't own an NTG-3 but it seems enough people out there do with good results so while it's not my first choice I'm sure it would suffice.
As far as it being 3ft over the talents heads? Doubtful that will suffice but ultimately depends on the room acoustics and the volume of the on camera talent. That is LOT of headroom though.

Time to make compromises right? What's more important the quality of your actual content of your video or having an ubber wide shot that you might go to a few times during the edit?
Decisions you need to make. One trick however.. In your screenshot your master camera is looking down onto talent (tripod up higher pointing downwards). Because of that angle
you're going to lose headroom even more. As you take the tripod lower you will be able to move the microphones closer to talent while still maintaining that similar headroom.

An exaggerated example would be if you took the camera all the way to the floor pointing at a single talking head, you could actually have the microphone at the same height as their eyeballs
and it still be out of shot.
Personally if the background looks good with that angle I'd bring your tripod down a bit to gain some room..and lose just a bit of the headroom.
Most likely you'll be able to get the booms in where you need them.

Hi Rippie,
First and foremost the quality of content.

Thanks for the suggestion and example. Wouldn't the headroom trick be equal if looking down or looking up? Either way, couldn't the space between the head and mic be shortened/cropped? It's definitely a better alternative to shooting straight at eye level.


Thanks Rippie

 

[andvx]

Hey man your set up shows wealth, go full sound lavalier + Boompole, take decisions in post.

Ha ha, it definitely shows creativity and ambition, but not sure about the wealth and $$$ to support the idea... yet

 

[Rippie]

Hi Rippie,
First and foremost the quality of content.

Thanks for the suggestion and example. Wouldn't the headroom trick be equal if looking down or looking up? Either way, couldn't the space between the head and mic be shortened/cropped? It's definitely a better alternative to shooting straight at eye level.


Thanks Rippie

Negative. When the camera is above pointing down you lose mic headroom.
Best example I can give you is imagine a single person reading to camera. The boom mic a few inches above their head.
Now take a piece of string and make one end of it the top of the persons head..and the other the camera lens. Start raising the tripod.
Eventually if you can keep going up you're going to hit the mic with the string correct?

Now start moving the tripod down.. the string is actually getting farther away from the mic.
You can gain even more by where the mic is... moving the boom mic closer to camera will be worse if the tripod is higher..but better if the tripod is lower.

So in the profile master shot if you had the booms on the far side of their heads (away from camera pointing slightly back towards their mouths)
you can get a little bit closer if the tripod is high.

 

[Bruce Watson]

The full body shot add completeness to the video. It's not a common shot probably because of the constraints it introduces which are being highlighted in this thread, but it really does stand out.

A creative decision then. If that's what you need, then that's what you need. That leaves you with either wireless (where you started) or static booming from a c-stand, which is what we talk about below.

It looks like this might be the best option. The NTG3 looks good at its price point, but I need to do some more research and look at some more reviews. I need to purchase two of them (host and subject), so the costs can add up very quickly.

Yep. If you're doing all this as interior work (small studio, location work, etc.) then you probably don't want a shotgun mic. Why? Interference tube mics don't handle rapid reflections well. That is, if they are close enough to a wall or ceiling that both the reflection and the direct sound arrive closely together enough, the interference tube can generate some comb filtering artifacts. Sounds bad, hard to impossible to fix in post. Take great pains to avoid this.

Far better in those cases to use a hypercardiod. The Hollywood standards are the Sennheiser MKH8050 and the Schoeps CMC6-mk41. The indy favorites for this same duty are the AT 4053b and the Audix SCX1-HC. Search around on this site and others and these are the ones that keep coming to the top of the list. Just sayin'.

BTW, I also own a 4053b and it sounds considerably better than the Sennheiser G3 with either the stock Sennheiser lav or the OST (but the OST is a sizable improvement for (of course) more money). And it's less money than the G3 and the stock lav, which makes it a good value in my book.

...the reviewer also puts the mics much higher than usual above which is potentially similar to what I am proposing.

Positioning is important. Mic needs to be close -- no farther than 60cm. Basically you want the mic out in front of the interviewee and pointing at roughly a 45 degree angle back at the mouth, and just above your frame line. Closer is better, around 45cm is typically a sweet spot, but if your talent moves around much at all being that close can allow talent to wander out of pattern. Better to back off some if that's a problem.

 

[doubledark]

The indy favorites for this same duty are the AT 4053b and the Audix SCX1-HC.

If the budget doesn't stretch to these mics, what would be the next level down?

 

[Felipe Henao]

Cardioid is better because doesn't capture room reflections at all , the Shure SM137 works fantastic, and price is a gift

 

[Rick R]

If the budget doesn't stretch to these mics, what would be the next level down?

Probably the Oktava 012, w/ a hyper cardioid capsule, which is popular due to it's low cost and good sound.. but has caveats., among them; handling noise, air turbulence, low output and they're all not created equal. Search this forum and elsewhere for more particulars. There's other low cost options.. but you get what you pay for.

 

[David W. Jones]

It's your gig, and you know your travel limitations better than we do. But audio gear aside, I would for sure include a small set of LED lights/diffusion/batteries/small lightweight stands into your kit. You are leaving so much to chance by not monitoring the audio and video during the shoot. Don't also shoot yourself in the foot by relying on lighting your corporate execs with available office light. The space you have available for the interview may not have adequate subject lighting.

Good Luck!

Dave