Wireless Setups for Show (Equipment Recommendations Needed)

Cryogenic Filmworks

Cryogenic Filmworks

Veteran
Looking for highly qualified professional advice

We are prepping to do a show in the real near future. It is one of those Real Estate fix up type shows like what you might see on HGTV or one of those other cable channels.

My cousin/production partner is insisting we invest in our own wireless setups for this and a few other shows we have in development. She want's 4 setups at this point. We are in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

Would like a top down list if possible (High to High-Mid) of mics we can look into as well as the a selection of (High to High-Mid) transmitter/receiver kits to look into. As far as budget, we feel we will be able to cover what is needed but do not want to go overboard. Just looking for what you pro's would be using in this situation.

So... if you are highly qualified pro (and I have some of you in mind for these questions) what you be using from best setup to high-mid setup.

Thanks in advance.
 
The first question you need to ask yourself is who will be doing the audio? And does that person know enough to make the equipment choice for you? They should, if not, the first upgrade should be to the audio professional. There is more depth to this comment than questioning the ability of your sound person.

Having said that, at the lower end, you can consider the G3 systems with an upgraded lav which will cost you around $1200/channel.
 
If it were me…. I would hire a pro from the area along with their kit to shoot the pilot. You will have a better grasp on any decisions needed to be made concerning audio gear purchases after you have a successful show under your belt. And you might decide it to be a better solution hiring a sound mixer and their gear, rather than dropping $20K+ on audio gear & still needing someone to operate it.
 
She has a guy lined up that our DP has worked with and recommends. I am not familiar with him myself so do not know what he has as of yet. Looks like she got access to them through one of our production partners but because of the future plans she really wants to own some.
 
Cryogenic Filmworks said:
She has a guy lined up that our DP has worked with and recommends. I am not familiar with him myself so do not know what he has as of yet. Looks like she got access to them through one of our production partners but because of the future plans she really wants to own some.
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There are sound financial and tax reasons to rent equipment from the sound person as needed. Make sure she talks this over with her accountant before she commits.

But to answer your question directly, Zaxcom, Lectrosonics, and Sennheiser are the big three wireless systems in the US. Hollywood uses lots of Lectros, with a fair amount of Zaxcom. Indy film people mostly use the more affordable Sennheiser systems, as do a fair number of local TV news crews.

But four channels of 400 series Lectros are going to run you at least $10k. Then you get to buy microphones for 'em. And they aren't going to do you any good without a field mixer and a field recorder. Four channels of Hollywood level wireless that gives you recorded dialog that you can send to audio post can easily run you $20k. Without any spares or expendables.

Just remember -- your $2500/channel wireless will sound almost as good as a $20 cable. And it won't be anywhere near as reliable. Wireless is not a first choice. Wireless is a last resort.

Finally, there are many good reasons why people here are telling you to hire a sound person who knows what s/he's doing and listen to him/her when s/he tells you what equipment will work best for a given scene. Many good reasons.
 
Cryogenic Filmworks said:
but because of the future plans she really wants to own some.
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4 x Lectrosonics mic kits, 4 lav mics, Sound Devices 664, Flash card media, cables, Production bag, boom pole, headphones, gloves, breakaway cable/extra Lectro kits for wireless hops, Particular fan-outs for individual cameras, additional mics like hyper, shotgun, dynamic, batteries. I know I'm forgetting a bunch.
 
I know the lust for toys is great but unless you plan on doing your own sound work it makes very little sense to buy wireless.
First off if you hire someone they are going to want to work with their own gear. They know it they know the kwirks, etc.

IF they don't own what they need they are going to want to pick what is rented, for some of the same reasons above.

I don't do a huge amount of production but I have done a lot of FX recording and I HATE to use other peoples equipment unless they are A) a fellow sound person and B) I have used this particular bit of gear before.

It's nerve wracking, if they are any good, because they know their butt is on the line but they don't have control over key parts of making sure that it comes off with out a hitch.

It's really not a good choice. If you really feel you need to own something then talk to the sound guy and get what he wants to work with.

BTW other reasons wireless is particularly bad to own is that the fed keeps chopping away at the feq.s available so who knows if what you buy today will work a few years down the road. And it's fragile.
 
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Unfortunately wireless systems are a lot more complicated than 'switching it on and shoot". Even the high-end gear requires due-diligence in frequency selection and gain staging. Especially in a RF hell area like Dallas/Ft Worth.
 
Just sticking to the initial question, I recommend Lectro. I've been with them since day one(the better part of two decades, now). On the new side, you can expect to spend about $1200-$1400 per Tx and about $1700(411A single ch) to $2200(SR dual ch) per Rx. You can save some decent money looking on the used market, though. I have purchased Tx's on eBay and directly from guys(Lectro no longer makes UH400A's and I hate the "new" style plug-on Tx). I just purchased two new SMQV Tx's from TAI and Joe told me they have some "new" stuff in their used dept. I saw a few kits consisting of an SRb 2-ch Rx and two UM400A belt pack Tx's for $3695. That's about $1000 savings off of brand new. So for about $7400 you could have four chs of wireless. But that's not counting lav's, mic's, cables, mixer, back-ups, etc. So, if you're shooting a pilot, bringing someone in that has all the gear and knows how to use it is definitely a good idea and more cost effective. You can easily be into $20-$25k+ for a basic audio package nowadays, especially with a multi-channel mixer/recorder.

I do understand the appeal of owning all of the gear, though, because I do. I like having everything I need that's ready to go when I am and not have to worry about finding someone with equipment I need for my shoot. I actually own more wireless than a lot of dedicated audio guys in town. I'm currently at eight complete channels(plug-on & belt pack for each ch), plus wireless cam hop that can feed two ch's to two cams. And two "illegal" Tx's that are sitting on the shelf that I'm going to get re-blocked eventually, possibly into a block I don't have to have as back-up in-case I'm somewhere and I'm screwed with my primary.

I respectfully disagree with Noiz2 about owning your own wireless and audio gear. But I am speaking only for myself since I don't know the OP's background or market. I completely understand what he is saying though, because I usually do not shoot without my own camera. But where I am located, there are a lot of talented sound guys(although not enough sometimes. I've gone 20+ deep before on some days looking for one). And very few who will not work with my gear or prefer their own over it(99% a $ thing for them). Only one of my "regulars" uses his instead of mine on normal shoots. But a few have said that I am one of the few camera guys who's audio gear they will work with because I do have quality equipment packages that they trust(all SD mixers, Lectro wireless, BDS in the bags, etc.).

But if you only take one thing away from this thread it's definitely 'talk to a competent audio guy and bring them in on it'. You don't want to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on the wrong gear and you want to make sure you get what you REALLY need to do it right, even if that is getting an audio guy on-board with his own package and you make a little less. You can cover up bad video with b-roll. If you have bad audio, you're screwed.
 
Sometimes it makes sense to own, other times it doesn't. I own, but my audio gear gets used 40 weeks per year so it makes sense for me. If I were only going to use my kit 4 weeks a year then hiring would be the more sound business practice in my case, rather then tying up all those funds on gear sitting unused for 11 months.

I know I'm a little strange in this regard, but I like to track my gear purchases so I know when something has paid it self off. From that point the profit, and hypothetical cost per day over the course of its lifespan. I know, it's a sickness.
 
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