Wireless Mic Problems with Tascam DR-40

PegLeg Media

Well-known member
Okay, i have had wayy too much trouble getting wireless lavs to work with my tascam dr-40.

My gear

Tascam DR-40 with an xlr to 3.5mm male chord.

Samson Airline Micro Wireless Kit ( http://www.amazon.com/Samson-Mounta...11706&sr=8-2&keywords=samson+airline+wireless )

Mics - the lav that came with the Samson worked okay for a while. sometimes it worked well sometimes there was a hiss, example of the hiss here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZjZ4XhVolo (i tried every setting in the tascam dr-40) I also get this hiss with my rode ntg-1 boom and a xlr to my boom) The lav finally got worse and worse and pretty much doesnt work anymore, on my tascam dr-40 or zoom h1.

I tried a tascam 30$ mic and it works great, a little hiss but much better quality. The trouble is the 15 feet of chord and batter it takes to use this lav ruins the chance of using it as a lav for things like weddings. and when im willing to spend more than 30$ i feel like this shouldnt be my best mic option. (of 2 booms and 3 lavs, this is the only mic not getting much hiss).

I spent 220$ on a tram tr-50 lav mic that said plugs into a samson. It would not work at first. I eventually got it to work by only plugging it half way into the samson kit. The next time I used it i got no sound from it at all. I do get sound from hitting the samson airline or moving the chord around on any of my mics (are they supose to be this flimsy?) I cant even use a boom with a boom pole (with a shock mount) because the chord makes too much noise over any movement at all.

am I doing anything wrong... Any options to get this mic or another mic to work? Any reason my 30$ tascam is the only mic not getting a hiss and having problems?
 
Well, the first challenge is that the Samson Airline is a cheap system. Samson, Gemini, Azden... they all make systems that may have attractive price tags but have terrible performance issues. The stock lav's failure may just be that it reached the end of a very short lifespan.

As for the Tram, which is a great mic, the fact that you could only get it to work when plugged halfway in tells me there's a problem, but without seeing the system and playing around with it there's no way to know exactly what's going on. It could be that shoddy assembly/wiring inside the transmitter finally gave out and there's no signal carrying through from the mic to the transmitter. It could be that the mic's 1/8" connector wasn't actually wired properly for Samson in the first place, and your efforts to get it to work have resulted in some damage somewhere.

But then, the fact that you get sound by moving any of the mics' cables (or cords... chords are made of musical notes) around tells me there is a short somewhere, and likely in the transmitter.

Yes, these systems are flimsy. That's why they cost so little. Read the "$500 Wireless" sticky for more insight on that.

As for the NTG-1/DR-40 combination, when you say you're getting hiss... are you having to turn the input gain way up on the DR-40 to get enough recorded signal from the NTG-1? Look around the forum as there are several mentions of the NTG-1 and NTG-2 mics not having hot enough outputs to work well with the pre-amps in most handheld recorders. You really need to have an external mixer or pre-amp in front of the NTG-1 to get a clean recording.
 
It's a little hard to tell from your descriptions because you don't know much about your equipment and you are making conclusions base on your assumptions, wich may well be wrong.

"Hitting" the mic is one way to get it to stop working permanently, so stop doing that right now.

TRAM. You have either a mis wired mic or a bad connector/ bad cable.

It's unclear to me exactly what your equipment chain is.

It sounds like your runing the Samson mic through the wireless system. The TRAM also through the wireless and the Tascam direct to the DR40?

I'm assuming the Shotgun is going direct to the recorder, but?

So the first thing you need to do is to simplify and check things out one step at a time.

So you have a shotgun XLR going direct to the DR40. If you get noise moving the cable then 99% chance you have a bad conector or bad cable.

BTW sound equipment isn't so much "flimsy" (though some is) it's "fragile" (all of it).

So if your banging things around you could have broken a conector. The jacks in the DR40 are probably soldered to the board so yanking those around may have damaged the conector?

Cables go bad all the time so it's more likely to be a cable. You can get a cable checker or use a meter to check it out, ot just get a new one and see if that fixes the problem.

It's also possible that you are mistaking handling noise for a mic/cable problem. If you problem is that then you just need to practice.

You also need to attach the cable to the pole or it will be moving the mic around and causing you problems. Gaffers tape is your friend.
And you NEED wind protection, yes even indoors. Both of these could cause problems that you are mistakenly attributing to the mic/ recorder.

You would greatly benefit from half an hour with someone who knows what they are doing. For one thing it would tell you if it's user error or equipment failure.

The TRAM "plug 1/2 way in" says to me you have an incorrectly wired conector. This could be because it isn't made for the transmitter or it could be because your using some ill chosen adapter.

One thing you should drill into your brain is that just because a conector fit's doesn't mean it will work. You have to know what you have and what you need. Mini plugs (what I assume the transmitter uses) are used for everything from power (AC and DC in a wide range of voltages) to mic in's and headphone outs, and just about everything in between. Pluging a mic into most of them will destroy it. The same is true to a slightly lesser extent with XLR. I have seen them used for power (though not often) and they can range from line to mic. But they can also carry power for certain kinds of mic's. Plugging in one kind of mic to the wrong kind of jack can destroy it. So again you have to KNOW what your devices need and produce.

Adapters are the road to hell IF you don't thoroughly know what you are doing. It is VERY important that you know what each end needs AND how the adapter gets from one to the next.

As to hiss. Since some things are going through the wireless and some not ???? Who knows where it's coming from. The DR40, if it's not broken, is a pretty quiet box so it's probably not at fault. Of course you could be feeding it a mic signal and have it set at line and then cranking it to hell and back to get a signal. That would be noisy, but also user error.

So for any real online help you need to explain exactly what the chain is, what is happening, what you are doing.

Toss any assumptions you have because you are not experienced enough to make useful ones (actually you are never experienced enough to make fool proof assumptions so it's a good habit to just never assume anything when troubleshooting).
 
okay i have 3 mics and 2 audio recorders. The samson mic works with with neither recorder so the mic has just died. My 30$ tascam mic works with both recorders, so that mic is fine and the recorders should be fine. My Tram-50 mic does not work with the dr-40 but does work with the zoom h1. So i think the tram tr-50 works, it just doesnt fit with the dr-40. does anyone know if there is some type of adapter to get this mic to work with the samson airline wireless kit? Do i need a special wireless kit to work with this mic? how would I know what wireless kit would work?

sadly i feel like ill be better off throwing the $220 Tram TR-50 away and buying a $30 audio technica mic that doesnt have a long chord.
 
"it just doesnt fit with the dr-40. does anyone know if there is some type of adapter to get this mic to work with the samson airline wireless kit? Do i need a special wireless kit to work with this mic? how would I know what wireless kit would work?"
- If you're trying to plug the Tram directly into the DR40 (hardwired), you need an 'XLR Phantom Power Adapter' with the proper input connector.
If the Samson Airline wireless system does not work with the DR40, but works otherwise, I would suspect an improperly wired cable going into the DR40.... in this configuration the Phantom Pwr. must be OFF.
If you want to get rid of the Tram, I'll take it and pay S&H and then some.
 
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I am plugging the TRAM into the Samson, then the samson reciever is plugged into the tascam dr-40 with an xlr to 3.5mm cable.

The mic doesnt work with phantom power on or off. But the same setup works fine when i unplug the TRAM and plug in the audio technica to the samson airline.

I dont know if I will be selling the TRAM yet because it still works fine plugged straight into my zoom h1. I dont know why they would make cheap microphones compatable with all recorders and expensive mics only work with certain recorders.
 
okay i have 3 mics and 2 audio recorders.

Well by my count you also have a wireless system you are trying to connect.

The samson mic works with with neither recorder so the mic has just died.

If you stop making assumptions about things you don't understand and you will be a leg up toward solving the problem.

The mic is going to have a mini XLR connector so it won't plug into either recorder. Also the kind of power that mic needs is not supplied by the DR40 (not sure of the h1) and if it was it would be on a mini jack in probably. So any way you are hooking up that mic you are using adapters and it's not getting what it needs.


My 30$ tascam mic works with both recorders, so that mic is fine and the recorders should be fine.

That is a conclusion that is probably correct.

Small point but in the US the $ sign goes in front of the number, totally OT but it was bugging me.


My Tram-50 mic does not work with the dr-40 but does work with the zoom h1.

This is where I think you are exposing the problem I mentioned in the earlier post. The h1 has a 1/8" connector that can supply the power that a lot of consumer mics want. The DR40 does not have an 1/8" mic jack and does not supply that power. The Samson transmitter you mention does not have an 1/8" mic in either.

SO you can not be plugging these mics into all the boxes you are talking about with out a bunch of adapters. AND these misc, on their own, are not compatible with the various devices you are talking about.

So i think the tram tr-50 works, it just doesnt fit with the dr-40. does anyone know if there is some type of adapter to get this mic to work with the samson airline wireless kit? Do i need a special wireless kit to work with this mic? how would I know what wireless kit would work?

You are seeing some light! You can not just plug something into a hole it fits in and expect it to work. You need to at least read the manuals for the devices you own and you need to know what they can work with.

As far as I can tell you have:

h1, can accept a mic on a 1/8" jack and can provide "plug in power" (should work with most consumer mics that have a 1/8" plug. Though it's designed for a stereo in it may also work with a mono one.

DR40, can accept a(2) 1/4" line in mono, or two XLR mic ins and can provide "phantom power". (will work with most any profesional mic you can buy, T power would require an adapter).

Sampson wireless transmitter mini XLR mic in that can provide power to a lavs designed to work with it. (not all lavs need the same power, most should work with the Sampson if wired correctly).

Sampson wireless receiver, mini XLR out (probably mic though the "spec. sheet" doesn't say so) and a 1/8" pad-able line out (looks like it could get low enough to feed a mic in but? This should be able to feed most recorders and cameras providing you set it up correctly.

Sampson Mic wired with a mini XLR. It will work with the Sampson transmitter but probably not with anything else with out rewiring it.

AT mic 1/8" plug (I'm assuming this because you could connect it to the h1 but?) this mic is going to need "plug-in power" so most consumer recorders with an 1/8" mic jack should work. It will not work with the Sampson with out rewiring. It won't work with the DR40 because there is no 1/8" mic jack.

TRAM, If you can plug it into the h1 then you probably have a 1/8" plug on it so it won't work with the DR40 because it has no place to plug in AND the DR40 probably can't supply the kind of power it needs. Properly wired it should probably work with the Sampson transmitter.

sadly i feel like ill be better off throwing the $220 Tram TR-50 away and buying a $30 audio technica mic that doesnt have a long chord.

Throw it my way I will carefully dispose of it for you at no charge.

What you have is a collection of gear that is mostly incompatible out of the box. You need to decide what you want to work and set them up accordingly. The DR40 is not going to interface well with anything here but the Samson receiver To make any of the Lavs work you would need a special power unit to take the 48V phantom power and convert it to what the mic needs.

Any of the mics will probably work with the h1 IF you wire them correctly to a 1/8" plug.

Any of the mics will probably work with the Sampson transmitter IF you wire them correctly to a mini XLR connector.

Given the last two statements it is quite likely that you could get a special adapter cable made that would let you convert from one to the other. It's possible that there is a stock adapter that would do it, maybe.

A better choice is probably to dedicate a mic to the h1 and use the others for the wireless.

You should have worked the above out on your own. It's all very basic stuff and a few minutes with Google.

If you want to do sound, or even just get by, you need to do your homework or it will always be a living hell waiting for the next thing you don't understand to come up and bite you in the butt.

It's a little like that even if you have done your homework.
 
I am plugging the TRAM into the Samson, then the samson reciever is plugged into the tascam dr-40 with an xlr to 3.5mm cable.

The mic doesnt work with phantom power on or off. But the same setup works fine when i unplug the TRAM and plug in the audio technica to the samson airline.

I dont know if I will be selling the TRAM yet because it still works fine plugged straight into my zoom h1. I dont know why they would make cheap microphones compatable with all recorders and expensive mics only work with certain recorders.

There is no 1/8" input on the DR40.

RTFM!

It occurs to me that you may have been sending the 1/8" from the Sampson to the Tascam. In this case you are sending a line level and you need to go in the TRS jack not the XLR. AND you do not want to have phantom on and you want the input set to line. You may also have to make some setting changes on the Sampson.
The Sampson is really consumer gear so it really doesn't have much of a manual to read so??? you are kind of on your own.

They make consumer mic work with most consumer gear because consumers never RTFM. The DR40 is "prosumer" and works with pro mics. And most pro's RTFM.

There is a theme here and it involves an acronym.
 
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The TRAM TR-50 is a great mic, but you will need to use a TRAM power supply with XLR output to power the TR-50 and enable you to plug it into your Tascam DR-40 recorder.

Otherwise, you could get the TRAM TR-50 permanently converted to the proper plug for your Samson Airline Micro. ( www.TrewAudio.com is one place than can do this conversion )

If I was going to replace anything in your audio kit, I would dump the Samson Airline Micro and replace it with a better sounding and more reliable Sennheiser G3 system. ( about $600 with a fairly good lav mic )
 
"If I was going to replace anything in your audio kit, I would dump the Samson Airline Micro and replace it with a better sounding and more reliable Sennheiser G3 system. ( about $600 with a fairly good lav mic )"
- I agree, in fact if the Tram works with recorders having an 1/8" input, it would likely work with a Sennheiser G2/3.
 
Well by my count you also have a wireless system you are trying to connect.

Yes, the Samson Airline is my wireless system that I am using




The samson mic works with with neither recorder so the mic has just died.

If you stop making assumptions about things you don't understand and you will be a leg up toward solving the problem.

I said this b/c the mic would work on and off as I turned it and held it to certain angles on the Samson. It also slowly got worse and worse until it died. You were also the one who first suggested it probably ended its short lifespan.





The mic is going to have a mini XLR connector so it won't plug into either recorder. Also the kind of power that mic needs is not supplied by the DR40 (not sure of the h1) and if it was it would be on a mini jack in probably. So any way you are hooking up that mic you are using adapters and it's not getting what it needs.

The Mic has a 3.5mm connector, not a mini xlr connector. The mic fits into the samson with no adapter and the samson fits into the Tascam using the 3.5mm cord to XLR that came with it.







This is where I think you are exposing the problem I mentioned in the earlier post. The h1 has a 1/8" connector that can supply the power that a lot of consumer mics want. The DR40 does not have an 1/8" mic jack and does not supply that power. The Samson transmitter you mention does not have an 1/8" mic in either.


The Samson plugs into the Tascam with a xlr to 3.5mm adapter that came with the Samson Kit





SO you can not be plugging these mics into all the boxes you are talking about with out a bunch of adapters. AND these misc, on their own, are not compatible with the various devices you are talking about.

TASCAM To xlr to 3.55 on the Samson wireless - then the Samson has a 3.5mm hole for all 3 of my mics






As far as I can tell you have:

h1, can accept a mic on a 1/8" jack and can provide "plug in power" (should work with most consumer mics that have a 1/8" plug. Though it's designed for a stereo in it may also work with a mono one.

DR40, can accept a(2) 1/4" line in mono, or two XLR mic ins and can provide "phantom power". (will work with most any profesional mic you can buy, T power would require an adapter).

Sampson Mic wired with a mini XLR. It will work with the Sampson transmitter but probably not with anything else with out rewiring it.

AT mic 1/8" plug (I'm assuming this because you could connect it to the h1 but?) this mic is going to need "plug-in power" so most consumer recorders with an 1/8" mic jack should work. It will not work with the Sampson with out rewiring. It won't work with the DR40 because there is no 1/8" mic jack.

TRAM, If you can plug it into the h1 then you probably have a 1/8" plug on it so it won't work with the DR40 because it has no place to plug in AND the DR40 probably can't supply the kind of power it needs. Properly wired it should probably work with the Sampson transmitter.

I dont want to plug the tram into the DR40 - i want to use it as a wireless plugging it into the samson. I will try to run My canon 7d to the samson and see if the Tram works this way... Would that mean that the problem is that the DR40 cant supply the power it needs?






Any of the mics will probably work with the Sampson transmitter IF you wire them correctly to a mini XLR connector.

How do I wire them to a mini XLR?


sorry, i am dumb with this
 
Okay, let's clarify a couple of things here:

- The Samson transmitter takes a 1/8" (3.5mm) input, so mini XLR doesn't enter into the equation.

- Scott is right about making the assumption that just because the plug fits the jack, all will be compatible. Different manufacturers of wireless systems have different wiring schemes for the inputs of the transmitters, so you need to check with the manufacturer of the lav (or the dealer from whom you purchased the Tram if they're also a service center) to see if it is wired properly for the Samson transmitter. My guess is that it is not, since the only way you ever got them to play nice together was to have the mic plugged only halfway into the transmitter.
 
The TRAM TR-50 is a great mic, but you will need to use a TRAM power supply with XLR output to power the TR-50 and enable you to plug it into your Tascam DR-40 recorder.


So how do I use a TRAM power supply?

I dont want to plug my tram into my Tascam. I want to plug my samson into my tascam then have the wireless samson have teh tram plugged into it.
 
- The Samson transmitter takes a 1/8" (3.5mm) input, so mini XLR doesn't enter into the equation.

Actually the Samson Micro / Airline UM1 systems have mini-XLR sockets on both the transmitter and the receiver, so any lav mics you want to plug into the transmitter have to be wired for mini-XLR.

If his TRAM TR-50 lav is properly wired with a mini-XLR connector, the Samson unit should work, but it sounds like there may be wiring problems with PegLeg's mics.

I think the simplest solution for PegLeg is to send all his mics and the Samson unit to a good audio repair place ( like TrewAudio.com ) and have them wire the appropriate plugs for his system. This way he is guaranteed to have things wired properly, and they can check to make sure it all works before sending it back to him.

I still think dumping the Samson unit would be a good idea if PegLeg wants to own something reliable like a Sennheiser G3 system.
 
Actually the Samson Micro / Airline UM1 systems have mini-XLR sockets on both the transmitter and the receiver, so any lav mics you want to plug into the transmitter have to be wired for mini-XLR.

One version of the UM1 does, yes. But another version of the UM1 has a 1/8" input on the transmitter. The Airline Micro system that the OP linked at the head of this thread also has 1/8" connections.

Samson UM1 with mini XLR input

Samson UM1 with 1/8" input

Samson Airline Micro with 1/8"

So how do I use a TRAM power supply?

You don't need it for use with your Samson wireless.

I dont want to plug my tram into my Tascam. I want to plug my samson into my tascam then have the wireless samson have teh tram plugged into it.

I think this conversation is getting a bit convoluted, since we have a very inexperienced OP.

PeglegMedia: your issue is NOT because of a need of adapters, power supplies, or anything else. The TRAM is most likely not wired correctly - even though it has the proper connector - for your Samson transmitter.

Your Samson transmitter may also be the problem, since you say it worked for a while (even with the stock lav), but doesn't now. That's to be expected of junk wireless systems, really. But as TheDingo mentioned it may be time just to send the whole Samson system and the TRAM to Samson and have them do a complete workover, just to make sure both that the transmitter and receiver are functioning properly and that your TRAM lav is configured the right way.

Samson simply makes cheap wireless systems. They don't cost much, either. You would be better off, if you really care about the quality of your audio, investing in a more reliable system (read the sticky on wireless systems).

Side note: Your $30 Tascam mic, the one with the 15' cord and the need for a battery... I'm assuming that one has an XLR termination and you plug it directly into the DR40? That's just for clarification, since your descriptions of both your gear and the problems are a little confusing.
 
I've become over the years used to the number of different connection methods manufacturers can dream up using very visually similar connectors. It's no wonder the OP is confused. Common sense says that if a plug fits the socket, then it should work - but that's never been true. Look at the humble XLR connector. In normal use, with a balanced microphone, we have earth (ground) on Pin 1, then the audio across pins 2 and 3. with a dynamic, lifting pin 1 doesn't stop it working, so using my cable trunk as an example, you could pull out an XLR to XLR cable, and not notice the green tape on each end. Try this cable on condenser mics, and they don't work because there is no pin 1 connection at one end. They work on dynamics of course. If you buy brand new, unterminated lav mics, you can find versions that have one centre conductor and the screen, but there are others with two cores, one needs voltage to polarise the capsule and the other is audio. Some brands may have power on the red one, and others will have audio on the red - some don't have red! If these are connected to transmitter packs, then they will probably have a 3 pin socket of the mini XLR, 3.5mm jack or special 3 or 4 pin connectors. A 3.5mm plug and a 3.5mm socket do not guarantee they will work. Sennheiser, for example have a 3 circuit 3.5mm jack - but it's not balanced - the audio for line level goes in on a different connection to the mic input - a quick Google brings back lots of hits for web sites with connection details simply because it is very common. Sometimes you can bodge the connections so that they work, but you may well be using the wrong core to provide the ground. Moving cables like these, where the actual screen is floating means the cable itself becomes microphonic sometimes, so a rustling noise appears, and often tapping the cable produces real taps in the audio.

Cheap radio systems in my own experience when used on their own are often surprisingly good for the money. They fall down on robustness and potential for future repairs, and of course suffer badly when other nearby channels are in use because of their cruder RF design - BUT - they often sound fine.

Selecting and connecting different microphones is not anywhere as simple as making sure they have the same looking plug. That guarantees nothing at all!
 
Yes as Paul stated, even the same connector can be wired differently, for instance both the Sennheiser G2/3 and the Sony UWP use a 3.5mm (1/8 inch) plug, they are wired different, as are different model Lectro transmitters with TA-5 connectors. "I have a Dream", all would use the same connector and connector and live harmony.
 
Okay, let's clarify a couple of things here:

- The Samson transmitter takes a 1/8" (3.5mm) input, so mini XLR doesn't enter into the equation.

- Scott is right about making the assumption that just because the plug fits the jack, all will be compatible. Different manufacturers of wireless systems have different wiring schemes for the inputs of the transmitters, so you need to check with the manufacturer of the lav (or the dealer from whom you purchased the Tram if they're also a service center) to see if it is wired properly for the Samson transmitter. My guess is that it is not, since the only way you ever got them to play nice together was to have the mic plugged only halfway into the transmitter.


Well I got the mini XLR after looking at the spec sheet from Sampson so either this is an older model or the name for the model as posted is not correct , or Sampson just has the wrong file up?

So sorry about that.

I would have thought that the 1/8" plugs would have some consistency in wiring but guess not. In general I have found that very few wireless systems use similar wiring of connectors. This has been with mini connectors other than 1/8".


Your description of the sampson mic sounds like a bad connection/ broken wire. If it's on the plug end it's not hard to fix if it's at the capsule end it can be tricky.

Forget the mini XLR, that was based on looking at the specks and seeing it listed as the input/ output connectors for the sampson.

The Sampson reciever doesn't need or want phantom power from the DR40.

There are two issues here and they are not nec. connected.

You have three mics and a wireless system and two recorders.

From your last post it seems like you are always connecting the mics to the transmitter and the receiver is connected to the Tascam.

So you have three "systems" that could be a problem and you need to narrow it down. The first is mic to transmitter. It looks like you have one mic that works with the transmitter. So then the problems with the other two are probably one mic needs repair and one may need rewiring.

Next you have transmitter to receiver. If I read correctly you have been able to get a signal out of the transmitter to something so that system is probably working.

And last you have Transmitter to recorder. Again I think I heard you say that there was a configuration that worked with some recorder. If that is true then it's the connection from transmitter to recorder that is probably the problem.

On the Tascam you could have the input source set incorrectly, needs to EXT. Also what kind of signal is the Sampson sending (I looked at the specs but since those sheets said it used mini XLR... I don't trust them)? If it's sending a mic level signal then you need to make sure the Tascam is set up for Mic. or you won't hear much or anything. Also NO Phantom power. If it's a line level and you have the Tascam set for Mic you will probably have huge distortion.

Also is the signal balanced? If not there may be an issue of how the XLR is wired.
 
Regarding the Tascam DR-40 line-level: it wants to see a nominal +4dB signal, either on the 1/4" or XLR, so feeding it at -10dB, levels would result in very low levels, and there's very little additial gain available in line level mode.
 
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Side note: Your $30 Tascam mic, the one with the 15' cord and the need for a battery... I'm assuming that one has an XLR termination and you plug it directly into the DR40? That's just for clarification, since your descriptions of both your gear and the problems are a little confusing.

No I plugged the $30 tascam into my samson with the 1/8th adapter. Then had my samson into my tascam. Exact same set up as when i switched out this mic for the Tram.

But i figured out the problem, you guys were right, the mic i purchased was wired for a different transmitter and thats why it wont work with Samson Airline. For $50 that website someone posted said they will rewire everything for my Samson transmitter. Thanks for the link!

I still am on warranty so I think i am going to send the mic back and buy a cheaper mic that works with my samson airline kit. anyone know a decent lav in the $100 range that will work with my samson? I am having a hard time finding a Lav for samson transmitters with a 1/8th connection


and btw, thanks for your time and patients with my hard to understand posts and lack of terminology. I have learned a lot with this incorrect purchase thank you guys for your help!
 
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