Wireless lav for EX3

A perfectly respectable wireless system is the Sennheiser G2 series. You will need to buy 2 sets of transmitters and receivers. The lav that comes with the kit is okay, but that's the first upgrade to consider. You might want to go up to a Countryman B6 or Sanken Cos11. If you had more money to spend on the system, then go with the Lectrosonics.

Check out the audio section for many many discussions and product reviews.
 
I use an Audio Technica ATW-1800. Replaced the stock mics with AT's 899CW lavs.

Very good audio quality. And it's a dual-diversity, two-channel system. Comes with two transmitters.

Reliability is excellent and the signal is rock-solid because of the diversity design.
 
If you're only shooting a single wedding and no others then just rent something decent, a decent lav wireless mic set starts at around US$500... Be sure you want to shoot weddings before you starting spending money on equipment for them. Then if you do, spend the right money or you'll end up spending more to replace the mistake you bought to start with...
 
2 Grand?

Ok, That's two Senn. G2 setups with Countryman B3s, a variety of clips, and maybe one or two furry covers for when you HAVE to use them. Your budget takes you out of contention for the Lectrosonics but that's no biggie. The G2 is a nice unit for the money.

The Sanken Cos11x is a lovely mic, but will put you over the top if you're trying to get two sets. I bought the G2s and couldn't be happier. They even ship with batteries! :)

-P

GaryOldman said:
This is something I've been considering doing for a while. I keep getting requests to shoot weddings and I think I'm going to start taking people up on them. Also, I'd like a good lav anyway for my personal projects. Right now all I catch audio with is a Sennheiser mkh-416 shotgun mic and a boom. Not ideal at all. I'm comfortable spending up to two grand on this, as I know it's going to get frequent use, and I want to start out right. Thanks!
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I use Countryman B6's as a lav on the groom. Absolutely recommend them/. Tiny little head and invisable. The mic pics up everything from the groom, Bride and vicar.

I use lectrosonics rather than G2. tried the Sennheiser and just get better results with the lectros. they cost a bit more but remember sound is important as the image, and poor quality tiny sounding audio is not what you want.
 
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Steve Shovlar said:
they cost a bit more but remember sound is important as the image, and poor quality tiny sounding audio is not what you want.
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A. The G2's do not sound tiny, or they would not be as popular with amateur filmmakers as they are.

B. The cheapest Lectro system UCR 100 series are over twice as much, and do not even come with a microphone, or mount. He's at $1500 a set to go that route.
 
OK calling them tinny was an exageration. I had a set and got rid because I was unimpressed. I have spent quite a bit on my sound setups.

I use Countryman B6 lavs, Lectrosonics, and my other mics include Sennheiser MKH60 and MKH50's.

Buy the best you can afford.
 
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Steve,

I don't disagree that the Lectro's are better. But clearly, someone just getting into audio for the first time isn't looking to drop $5k to get started like you have. While I have the greatest respect for the more pro level posters on this site, sometimes people tend to lose sight that there are those of us who are newer to this or on limited budgets because we don't earn money from this.

When you have someone paying you $1k-$3k at the end of a weekend for your sound services, that Countryman and Lectro seem like great investments. When you're shooting a friends short or a friends wedding for $400, that $2500 cost of entry is mighty steep.

And truth be told, by the time you take a Lectro and a G2 through the on-camera processing, much of the advantage is going to be lost. I would be willing to bet that the G2 and the Countryman B3 is going to absolutely THRILL the people he's shooting for.

-P


Steve Shovlar said:
OK calling them tinny was an exageration. I had a set and got rid because I was unimpressed. I have spent quite a bit on my sound setups.

I use Countryman B6 lavs, Lectrosonics, and my other mics include Sennheiser MKH60 and MKH50's.

Buy the best you can afford.
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Fair comment Perrone. I started out buying cheaper gear and found it to be false economy in the long run. First mic I purchased was an ME66 with all the bits and was extremely disappointed with it. I chopped it in and got sennheisser radio mics, which I had for a year. But I realised that I needed something better, so waited and waited. Eventually along came a nice second hand Lectro set on ebay and I got it cheapish.

I did a ton of research in the audio section of this site, which is a goldmine of info for those that haven't ventured into that section. Listening and following the advice of audio pros, I purchased a sennheisser 416 ( which I still own and use occassionally) and then onto the MKH60 (which I use every day alongside my MKH50) I also purchased a matched set of Oktava MK012's, which are cheap and brilliant for the money. Buy them.

As for lavs, I again spent months researching before plumping for the Countrymans, which again I got reasonably cheaply on Ebay. I have two sets of black and two sets of skin coloured. They are so small they just aren't seen unless you are really looking.

I have some Trams which are also very good and worth owning.

I agree with you that I might lose a bit using the camera to record the sound, buut i can tell the difference. Of course Ideally I would be working alongside a sound guy with a nice Sound Devices setup but doubt the vicar would like a boom pole swiverling about above the bride and groom!!!

Buying new and yes, the gear is expensive. Buying second hand off ebay has its risks but so far, touch wood, I have got great gear at a discount price.

Many get so hoked up with camera specs they completely overlook that sound is 50% of the image.
 
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Steve,

Again, I agree that sound is a HUGE part of what we do. But I'll offer this and I'm done.

My clients (the one's who buy my gear) are absolutely THRILLED with what I give them with a ME66 and a DVX. It's been tough moving them into buying an Edirol to do 24bit recording, and into an EX1 and doing nothing but HD. But now I have both, along with a full edit suite, lighting package, and other bits.

The fact is, I make ZERO dollars from my corporate work. None. And asking someone to drop $1500 on a microphone when they are happy with the sound of an SM58 (of which I have 3) is a VERY VERY tough sell in a non-profit oriented workplace.

Again, your comment that you use your MKH60 every day, tells the story. Most people here including our original poster wouldn't pick up that mike 10 times a year most likely. I tend to do about 4-5 corporate shoots a year. A few PSAs, and other things. The rest of the time, the gear is mine to use as I like, when I shoot for myself, and make some cash on the side that is generally used to buy more stuff for the office.

Someone who shoots features for a living is going to see great utility in owning a nice set of PL-Mount primes. However, trying to convince the hobbyist shooter that may NEVER shoot a feature, that it's a sound investment because he bought cheaper Nikons early on and out grew them is really a strawman argument.

It's much the same as sound. I came from a music studio background, and am very comfortable with audio. But I don't see the ME66 or the G2s as limiting at ALL. And neither do my clients. And really, that's where we have to assess things. What do your CLIENTS need and want? If your client want's 720x360 web videos, is it REALLY worth it to record 24bit audio and pull out an Arri 435? Or will that DVX or HVX give them what they need at a fraction of the cost?

You get where I'm coming from? Will the G2s sound good? Yes. Will they sound like a feature? No. And quite likely, no one expects them to, or needs them to.
 
That is ONE mic system. It has a transmitter, receiver, and cables. You might look to upgrade the microphones to something of higher quality (like the Countryman B3 or B6, or the Sanken Cos11x. But other than that, you're good to go.

I got that exact G2 package, took it out of the box, put the batteries in, connected the receiver to my cam, and put the mic and transmitter on me, and had audio. A few level adjustments and everything was good to go. I think put my Countryman B3 on it and was very pleased with the sound.

Not Hollywood, but as good as anything I've heard locally on cable.
 
I would also recommend some rechargeable AA batteries. Each set lasts about 4-5 hours on a charge, but always have spares ready.

Also, make sure you do some tests before the actual event. Mic placement can be very important, especially if you're only using 1 mic to pick up 3 people. If you're only using 1 mic, then I would suggest routing the input to both L and R channels on the camera, and have the level higher on one channel. That way, you can pick up both soft and loud voices better.

As Perrone mentioned, make sure you set your AF (audio frequency) output level on the receiver. Mine is set at -24, but you may have different equipment and preferences. I think the consensus is to have the output at mic level (vs. line level), and use the preamps on the camera.
 
I am not the biggest fan of rechargeables, but they do save some costs. I'd buy a 32 pack of AA batteries before any large event, and change batteries regularly.

Oh, and DO NOT LET THE GROOM/BRIDE RUN OFF WITH YOUR TRANSMITTER!!

Whenever I shoot events I have a "dresser" that puts mics on the talent before they go on stage, and takes the mics off again when they come off stage. This is harder at a wedding, but really seems important!
 
Here's a review of a wide variety of lavs:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

Not to push Audio-Technica's equipment too hard, but I also have a set of Countryman mics and was disappointed to not find a way to rewire them for the ATW-1800 system.

So I got a set of AT's 899's instead, and was surprised to find them sounding about as good as the Countryman mics. The 899's are 0.05" larger than a B3 (just slightly larger), but I usually hide them beneath a t-shirt so that doesn't matter.

The system provides good clean sound. No odd coloration. And no dropouts. Setting frequencies is very easy. And they don't use expensive 9v batteries. I just started using rechargeable NiMh AA batteries.

For rechargeable AA's, here's a source of batteries:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...ml?SP_id=68&osCsid=ku54lfk4n7gg5tmndihjuscl03

These batteries can sit on a shelf longer than other NiMH batteries, yet still retain more of their charge.

And an "intelligent" charger:
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-mh-c801d-battery-charger.htm
 
Great thread.....audio is not disscussed enough on some Video forums.

Is the Countrymen mics you talk of these shown here
http://www.distributedsoundandvideoltd.co.uk/eshop/index.php?target=products&product_id=5855

Got to take us Europeons into account sometimes too you know ;-)

Can you also use the Camera systems to plug into a sound system too??
I have two handheld mics and a wireless handheld mic system ...all seinnheiser.
Want to build up a good adaptable sound system.
 
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