Will Standard-Def still be around?

C

Carlos Corral

Well-known member
Hey Guys,

I did a search on this but really wasn't able to find my answer. I figured I would ask those of you who already own an HPX170 about something.

How often are any of you shooting Standard-Def footage with your camera? I have noticed that cameras like the HMC150, Sony EX1, and new JVC HM700 are all High-Def only cameras. Is everyone leaving SD behind except panasonic?

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with SD footage especially since alot of the web videos I do are with a Canon XL2 and they still look great.

But since I was thinking of investing in a Hi-Def camera soon (like in a month or two), I'm also taking into account if SD is still going to be something that will be used in the media market. I know 1 64GB P2 Card can hold 4hours of SD footage which is great for things like a documentary and such.

So yeah, is SD still something that will be around in a few years are we all simply going to adopt the workflow of HD --> SD if needed.
 
i shoot everything HD and downconvert to SD where needed and havent had a single problem.

and SD isnt going anywhere anytime soon. even after the eventual "digital conversion" 80-90% of the content out there is STILL going to be SD. id say we have 3 to 5 years of delivering a great deal of content in SD
 
What is your intended audience? who are you delivering your finished footage to and in what format?

I find that almost all of my rental clients deliver in SD. Wedding videographers, legal work, and event videography all depend on the technology that is most available to their client. Until a few years ago that was VHS, now its DVD. I am willing to bet its at least 3 years (and maybe closer to 5) before the majority of clients for smaller markets have a pressing need to deliver in some kind of HD format wether its via Web or BluRay.

Broadcast is a different beast altogether. Although most broadcasters should have at least a plan that should warn you ahead of time when they plan to roll out HD only footage.

I would wager to say that as of today 70 to 80% of the footage that is shot in HD in this market (sub $10,000 cameras) will end up viewed in SD.
 
I just did two projects in standard...it all depends on the project.

These were done for a non-profit, so I was doing the one man band thing.....if you need to do alot of footage continually and don't have the advantage of a 2nd AC to run cards, then guess what....SD it is

Will SD die...NEVER

Give it 40 years and yeah, it'll be phased out, but the simple fact is that in this day and age not everyone can afford a TV and camera....in 20 years the trickle down effect will cause anyone and everyone to have access to a TV, and the ones at the bottom of the trickle will have SD.

SD will just get cheaper, not die. Just imagine how long it's already lasted. it'll definitely be relegated to the web, toys, web cams, and the third world with time...but it'll take awhile for it to go away.
 
SD is king here downunder, a few shoot n deliver HD, but most still shoot SD (as I do) If I were to get a new cam in near future I'd get a switchable cam.

But for my foreseeable future, it's SD with my trusty SPX800 and DSR570, the world economic climate will also keep SD as king.
Really, it could be many years before HD takes over as the norm.

I have not had a client ask for HD delivery yet, when they start asking I'll think about it, my network contacts are lately more interested in keeping their budgets down to survive .

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
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So many people are invested in SD they won´t be able to switch the gear. From small productions to big networks. We also just unloaded EX-1 when we let for a shoot that was to be projected by a beamer: the projection was 4:3 so we got our beloved HVX200s out again :D

I would always make sure I have a SD cam around for the next 3-5 years at least.
 
SD will one day become what black and white TVs are today. They are still out there but fewer and fewer people have them. HDTVs are getting so cheap so it's just a matter of probably two to three decades before they penetrate 90-95% of households.

TVs (and electronics in general) eventually break and it's easier and cheaper sometimes to get a new one than to repair the old one. That's what I foresee happening. Right now we're still in the glitz and glamour gadget head stage of HD penetration because they are still quite expensive for most people and if there's no reason to upgrade (not everyone cares a lot about visual/sound quality) then there's no reason to buy.
 
two to three decades before they penetrate 90-95% of households.
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2 or 3 decades? are you insane? timelines have become CRAZY compressed. before that happens another discussion will come to surface - the gap between those who have or have not POWER will probably supersede the discussion of those who have or have not HD.
 
wgzn said:
2 or 3 decades? are you insane? timelines have become CRAZY compressed. before that happens another discussion will come to surface - the gap between those who have or have not POWER will probably supersede the discussion of those who have or have not HD.
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My family growing up was poor, so it wasn't until the mid 80's that we got a color television... and that was only because we inherited it. My parents still kept the black and white until I was out of high school in '96. Some people will still have SD 10 years from now. Very few, as it has been hard to buy a new TV that wasn't HD for several years now... but they will be there. For some folks, there isn't a reason to justify the upgrade if they have a decent SD TV.

That said, my TV station is broadcasting 1080i, as are our studio cameras... but we're shooting news P2 DVCPro25. Most of our cameras can do DVCProHD, but it would apparently cost millions of dollars to upgrade the Avid servers and workstations to handle it. They deemed upconverted DVCPro25 acceptable and we're just going to use it for the foreseeable future. DVCProHD is only used for special projects. I would think a lot of stations would be in the same boat. They switched over to non-linear, server based, P2 type workflows just before HD became cost effective, and now can't justify the millions in upgrades needed 5 years or less later.
 
what's up with the it's still 5 years from happening thing,

it's not that far away, once it's the norm to get small bad mobile phones with more than sd resolution, sd will die.

i don't think you can get a crt tv or monitor today, at least they won't make new ones, still in some parts really bad crt tv knockoffs are made, non of the major brands will make them, simply because they want to sell the new shiny things, they want consumers to get the new tv and computers to go with the new consumer toys they make, to sell there new toys.

most viewers when given choice, they would prefer watching something in hd, or a better quality version instead of sd.

when they start watching youtube videos or mobile phone clips that looks better than there dvds, they will go to something better then dvds to get there fix.

with todays technology without costing the consumer, you can get any quality you want and whenever you want. and the consumer will ask for the newer product.
if the consumer is getting a 1080p file and you said you got a newer 1081p file of the same content that is better quality, he will ask for it.
 
i think youre missing my point mike. i think we are optimistic to think there will even be TV in 10 years - unless someone can rethink the allocation of the unbridled breeding...

i know this is not the place to say it. but with the global economic downturn. i think we are seeing the beginning of the end of the models we all have grown up with... we are just unwilling to accept it.
 
WTF?!!! amrrahamy, that may just be one of the dumbest and at the same time, most marginally literate posts i've ever seen...
 
Hmm, this gives me a lot to think about. Hell, even the new HPX300 does SD Footage. I worked at a television station here in Austin TX recently and although they broadcast 1080i, they were merely shooting digibeta 16x9 and upresing the footage. It still looked good but none of their actual cameras were hi-definition except the grass valley cameras in the studio.
 
Carlos Corral said:
Hmm, I worked at a television station here in Austin TX recently and although they broadcast 1080i, they were merely shooting digibeta 16x9 and upresing the footage. It still looked good but none of their actual cameras were hi-definition except the grass valley cameras in the studio.
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Well there you go, "spot on" carlos, it's all about Budget not image quality in the end, that scenario is happening all over the globe, cheaper to buy and install a converter box/card than it is to dump a whole lot of perfectly great gear away.

"The bean counters will inherit the earth", I heard someone say that years ago...

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au
 
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I think this all hits the mark exactly...just cause you're getting a 1080 signal beamed into your house, doesn't mean SD is dead.

For some that think SD is, or will shortly die...did you know the government ran out of coupons for converter boxes? We happen to have 2 of the converter boxes here. We have 3 TV's and only one is HD....it isn't even 1080...it can handle the signal, but it's native 720p.

Hell I have a 6 computer network, the ability to film and edit 1080p or higher material(and display it on my editing system), and yet I can't afford cable TV...all rabbit ears here.

My Cell Phone? A Nokia 1100...like THE oldest texting phone!

My computers....almost all of them are 5+ year old tech.

The simple fact is that not everyone has the option to buy the newest phone with streaming video....not everyone can afford the 1080p television...not everyone can afford the brand new 1080 capable computer...and everyone isn't going to throw away their perfectly good SD equipment.

Like some have said....stations are upconverting...How many? Probably thousands. They are required to BROADCAST in Digital....they sure as heck aren't going to spend more then they have to to meet that requirement.

Trust me the view is much different from the end of the average consumer...so don't accept your world as the de-facto....if need be look into the statistics, but in the mean time, never ever expect old tech to die, cause you'll be dissapointed every time.

Heck there are still major programs that run in DOS....I still play games that were released on NES...Heck I have a car that was manufactured in 1990(and gets 48mpg by the way)....old tech only becomes time tested BRICK S**THOUSE tech :)
 
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amrrahamy, id like to publicly apologize for my comment. it was WAY harsh and uncalled for. i should have found a way to disagree with you without being an A-HOLE
 
that's just because you think people are logical, from were did you get this idea, people are not smart, nor logical, that's the bare bone truth.

and consumers are not all people, they are the majority that buys new shiny stuff, big brands and corporations don't care about the small people, if they are not making them any kind of money, they are invisible to them.
 
another example, new generation stupid people won't watch or think a black and white movie is bad because it's old and in black and white, some of these people won't watch a movie older than one year, that's the new generation. they would listen to new mtv pop teen half naked no talent singers, and won't have something a few years old on there ipod, that they chose by the size of the harddrive.

if you make a movie like transformers or spiderman 3 or indy 4 or one of the disaster movies or anything by seth rogan, they will go see it love it no matter how bad it is and be happy.
 
SD is alive and kicking with my corporate clients.

HD buried SD for all of my studio deliveries two years ago. ALL studio deliveries are now HDCAM SR.

I have shot one project on my HPX170 in DVC Pro. It was weird getting so much run time from my P2 cards.

For my own stuff, including home movies of the kids, HD all of the way.

The bottom line is it depends on who your clients are.

Dan
 
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