Will 700MHz Wireless Mics work in London?

puredrifting

puredrifting

Major Contributor
Hi all:

I have booked a project that will shoot in London next week. All scenes will take place inside a high rise in Brentford. The client here in the U.S. is supplying wireless microphones, both are Audio-Technica U100 series that operate in the 728-740MHz band.

I am doing some research on this and discovered this paragraph "The current users of the UK's 700MHz spectrum are the digital terrestrial TV (DTT) providers, including national free service Freeview" here UK regulator begins 700MHz LTE consultation - Rethink Wireless

Is there a DVXUser here who has recently shot in London using 700MHz wireless systems? Is this a case where the DTT will definitely interfere with our wireless or is this a case where we will probably be fine? Need to plan this out for a shoot next week. Don't have the budget to rent local wireless really but I do need to manage the client's expectations on if we think this will work.

Thanks for any advice,

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Hi all:

I have booked a project that will shoot in London next week. All scenes will take place inside a high rise in Brentford. The client here in the U.S. is supplying wireless microphones, both are Audio-Technica U100 series that operate in the 728-740MHz band.

I am doing some research on this and discovered this paragraph "The current users of the UK's 700MHz spectrum are the digital terrestrial TV (DTT) providers, including national free service Freeview" here UK regulator begins 700MHz LTE consultation - Rethink Wireless

Is there a DVXUser here who has recently shot in London using 700MHz wireless systems? Is this a case where the DTT will definitely interfere with our wireless or is this a case where we will probably be fine? Need to plan this out for a shoot next week. Don't have the budget to rent local wireless really but I do need to manage the client's expectations on if we think this will work.

Thanks for any advice,

Dan
Click to expand...

Just as an aside, I don't know that the Audio-Technicas operating at 728-740 MHz are 'legal' in the US anymore....

From here:

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/wireless-microphones-manufacturers-equipment-list

I don't have the British frequency allocations on the tip of my tongue or fingers... but I suspect they have different spectrum allocations, and so the US devices would not be 'street legal' in the UK.
 
John Willett, over on the Cinema5D forum, was kind enough to educate me about UK frequency licensing schemes, pretty involved, I may just rent some Ch.38 wireless in London instead, they are the frequency over there that you don't have to get a license to use. Below is John's post for the convenience of anyone here who finds themselves in my same position. Leave it to the UK to have to pay about $120.00 to license the spectrum to use a wireless microphone. You'd think with the income tax and VAT rates over there, this wouldn't be the case.



You require a licence to use radiomicrophones in the UK (unless they are on the licence-free frequency band of 863-865MHz).

You *must* contact JFMG http://www.jfmg.co.uk/ and let them know what frequencies you want to use and where you will be using them. If it is legal you may purchase fixed-site co-ordinated frequency licences from them.

However - it is probably better to hire Ch.38 mobile frequencies in the UK.
 
Last edited:
puredrifting said:
John Willet, over on the Cinema5D forum, was kind enough to educate me about UK frequency licensing schemes, pretty involved, I may just rent some Ch.38 wireless in London instead, they are the frequency over there that you don't have to get a license to use. Below is John's post for the convenience of anyone here who finds themselves in my same position. Leave it to the UK to have to pay about $120.00 to license the spectrum to use a wireless microphone. You'd think with the income tax and VAT rates over there, this wouldn't be the case.



You require a licence to use radiomicrophones in the UK (unless they are on the licence-free frequency band of 863-865MHz).

You *must* contact JFMG http://www.jfmg.co.uk/ and let them know what frequencies you want to use and where you will be using them. If it is legal you may purchase fixed-site co-ordinated frequency licences from them.

However - it is probably better to hire Ch.38 mobile frequencies in the UK.
Click to expand...


Remember the UK is one of those places where one has to pay a license to RECEIVE TV... from the wiki one does not have to pay if one is over 75... or blind... There is a claim that trucks run around trying to find unlicensed receivers???
I recall 'Andy Capp' cartoon series to that effect...
 
Yes. The only good thing about the TV licence scheme is that they get BBC and ITV, both of which are heck of lot better than any of our networks over here. They definitely crack down in unlicensed TV viewing over there.
 
puredrifting said:
I may just rent some Ch.38 wireless in London instead, they are the frequency over there that you don't have to get a license to use.
Click to expand...

You *do* require a licence for Ch.38 frequencies - but you would be on the licence that the hire company has.

UK Ch.38 can be used all over the country, other frequencies are on a site-specific basis.

863-865MHz in Ch.70 are the only frequencies that are licence-free and are legal all over Europe.



j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Remember the UK is one of those places where one has to pay a license to RECEIVE TV... from the wiki one does not have to pay if one is over 75... or blind... There is a claim that trucks run around trying to find unlicensed receivers???
I recall 'Andy Capp' cartoon series to that effect...
Click to expand...

The detector vans (which received the back-emf from the receiver) don't run anymore. Instead, when you buy a TV the dealer has to fill in a special form so that it is known you have a TV and if you don't et a licence you will get a "visit".



puredrifting said:
Yes. The only good thing about the TV licence scheme is that they get BBC and ITV, both of which are heck of lot better than any of our networks over here. They definitely crack down in unlicensed TV viewing over there.
Click to expand...

The *great* thin about this is that there are no adverts on the BBC to ruin the programme - you can actually watch a film all the way through without being interrupted every 5-minutes - the licence fee is worth it for this alone.
 
Thanks for the Ch38 clarification John. I booked the license from the website that you linked me to, it ended up being £102 for the frequencies I need, not inexpensive but at least I will be properly licensed.

I miss BBC and ITV and all of the others, I used to have a London VPN so I could watch on-line but ended up having bandwidth and configuration issues that made it to inconsistent and frustrating. Yes, it is really nice to watch programs without the bother of commercials.
 
I think the license situation is pretty fair here. Obviously, huge numbers of people have bought equipment sold over the past few years on channel 69 - where they should have had a license. Those of us with them were offered very good surrender values by the Government when the plans to sell the channel 69 allocation to the 4G phone companies was announced. We were able to get compensation and then buy new kit. The remaining people on channel 69 will suddenly get a nasty shock when they get wiped out by the phones! Any complaints will be fruitless, because they were operating illegally. The channels in we're talking about here are what are know as coordinated channels - and the organisation JFMG (which can be googled) are the Governments agents who allocate empty channels by location, on request - like what has happened here.

Hire companies, and a few venues have a channel 38 license - the venues do it just because visiting companies often have radio mics and some may be licensed, but others probably aren't - so responsible venues cover their backs. The frequencies used by the coordinated channels are not likely to be in kit bought at the local music shop, or from ebay - so tend to be quieter and a lot more private and trouble free!

If people don't want to pay - they can use the channel 70 allocation free of charge - where they can get four or sometimes five channels - but it's a free-for-all with no protection at all from interference.
 
My only issue is that I had to pay £102 for a NON-EXCLUSIVE license, meaning that Ofcom will not guarantee that the frequencies I need to operate at are actually clear of interference. If they could do that, I would gladly pay, but when I arrive in London, if the local DTV penetrates the building I am shooting in, (the chart shows possible DTV interference in the frequency range my mics operate in) I will have to go to plan B, using my hard wired Audio-Technica Choir mics instead and I will have wasted £102 of my client's money and will end up with a substandard result.
 
I presume you actually got the license from JFMG? If so - don't worry because they're good people and very efficient. If you do have a problem, then they can sort things out very easily over the phone. When you get allocated a channel, as part of the system, they will have done a usage search, based on the location and they have comprehensive info on the local DTV situation, including an local relays in operation. They were very busy with the recent olympics and even then reports were that they could solve most issues very simply.
 
puredrifting said:
My only issue is that I had to pay £102 for a NON-EXCLUSIVE license, meaning that Ofcom will not guarantee that the frequencies I need to operate at are actually clear of interference. If they could do that, I would gladly pay, but when I arrive in London, if the local DTV penetrates the building I am shooting in, (the chart shows possible DTV interference in the frequency range my mics operate in) I will have to go to plan B, using my hard wired Audio-Technica Choir mics instead and I will have wasted £102 of my client's money and will end up with a substandard result.
Click to expand...

You may think about multiple receivers placed such that your mic signal strength is better for at least one of the receivers than any DTV interferer. I would imagine that New York has a similar problem at least in the 512-698 MHz band.
 
paulears said:
If people don't want to pay - they can use the channel 70 allocation free of charge - where they can get four or sometimes five channels - but it's a free-for-all with no protection at all from interference.
Click to expand...

All correct - but please be aware that the Ch.70 frequencies are not the whole of Ch.70, just a small 2MHz window (863.1 - 864.9 MHz) within Ch.70.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top