FS7: WideDR easy profile for FS7?

traviswears

traviswears

Well-known member
New to the FS7. Going through Doug Jensen's Masterclass but not quite to the color or picture profiles section yet. Trying to incorporate the FS7 in more of my shoots but having some issues with finding a basic profile that works for indoors, outdoors and mixed lighting that can match the C300/C100 in WideDR.

Set up the FS7 in mixed lighting today alongside the C100 for a 2-cam interview. Was using daylight Kinos and Flex lights, along with natural lighting and one tungsten practical source. The C100 looked great. In WideDR, at 5600k was very similar to what my eye saw. The Sony in custom HG8 mode looked awful. The tungsten source was rendered as overly magenta and the skintones were cold and lifeless. Also balanced to 5600k.

Both cameras were balanced to a white card in front of the key.

Ended up bringing in my 70D which looked worlds better. I am not blaming the camera, I realize I don't know it well yet.

This client didn't want SLog. Help?
 
Have you tried to shoot in Cine EI with S-log3 and add the 709A LUT to the internal recording? It's kinda like WideDR on the Canons. I've shoot extensively with a C100 these last months and today I was back on my FS7 in S-log3 and it looked wonderful in comparison with the C100.
 
I agree. I use a slightly modified lc709a lut with slightly crushed blacks. It puts reflective white at ca. 73% skin tones peak around 63 giving excellent highlights. In post you only need to tweak contrast to your liking.
 
Osslund said:
Have you tried to shoot in Cine EI with S-log3 and add the 709A LUT to the internal recording? It's kinda like WideDR on the Canons. I've shoot extensively with a C100 these last months and today I was back on my FS7 in S-log3 and it looked wonderful in comparison with the C100.
Click to expand...

Will try this! Thanks so much! Very grateful for the friendly and helpful community here.
 
traviswears said:
The C100 looked great. In WideDR, at 5600k was very similar to what my eye saw. The Sony in custom HG8 mode looked awful. The tungsten source was rendered as overly magenta and the skintones were cold and lifeless. Also balanced to 5600k.

Both cameras were balanced to a white card in front of the key.

Ended up bringing in my 70D which looked worlds better. I am not blaming the camera…..
Click to expand...

It is a bit of the camera's fault in custom mode.

If you shoot in custom mode try some profiles that are available online, they are way better than the Sony default ones. If you want "ease" or perhaps also referred to as a "better look" then shoot in CineEI mode where you have access to Sony's newer color science (s.gamut3.cine) in slog3 and you will surely like the results.

Custom Mode = Sony old color science (s.gamut) combined with the color matrix which can ruin things, so if you shoot in slog gamma in custom mode be sure to turn matrix "off". It will help.
CineEI Mode = new color science (s.gamut3). Will look better to you and be easy to grade without being a 10 year veteran colourist.
 
starcentral said:
It is a bit of the camera's fault in custom mode.

If you shoot in custom mode try some profiles that are available online, they are way better than the Sony default ones. If you want "ease" or perhaps also referred to as a "better look" then shoot in CineEI mode where you have access to Sony's newer color science (s.gamut3.cine) in slog3 and you will surely like the results.

Custom Mode = Sony old color science (s.gamut) combined with the color matrix which can ruin things, so if you shoot in slog gamma in custom mode be sure to turn matrix "off". It will help.
CineEI Mode = new color science (s.gamut3). Will look better to you and be easy to grade without being a 10 year veteran colourist.
Click to expand...

This is great to know. I was trying all the hypergammas and was blown away at how bad each one looked in this particular lighting scenario. Mixed lighting is something I deal with regularly and any camera I use has to be able to handle it. Was looking for a quick fix. Going to check out the CineEI-Rec709 combo and will read the Art Adams article for projects where the client wants a near-deliverable image straight from the camera.

Thx!
 
Yes, lot's to understand on these little beasts.

Here's a link to an article on baking in the built-in LC709A LUT on the Sony's… maybe a bit less complicated to understand and straight to the point : http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2014/06/f55-matches-arri-alexas-color/

You can also just record in plain slog3, monitor with the LUT and later in post apply the LUT incase you want to try other ones or tweak the contrast.

Also if recording in slog3 but monitoring with a LUT enabled, be cautious of the mapped values for middle grey and 90% white:

Screen%20Shot%202015-10-04%20at%209.00.23%20PM_zpsngajezby.png
 
Also Travis - Doug has scene files - for custom mode - thrown in when buying his book or video (perhaps you haven't gotten to that point yet). I have use his B-roll one for jobs that require WYSIWYG "in camera" look to hand over footage to a client. I've also burned in LUT's as well shooting in CineEI.... so I recommend trying them both out under various conditions to see which you prefer. For me, it often comes down to how much control I have of lighting and then a clients taste...
 
Mixed lighting can be very difficult in CINE EI as you are limited to 3 preset color temps. Look for a nice basic set-up in Custom with a good looking matrix and then get skilled at adjusting some of the basic parameters - matrix level, phase etc to optimize your look & color balance. You can learn to get a very nice looking picture .
 
starcentral said:
Yes, lot's to understand on these little beasts.

Here's a link to an article on baking in the built-in LC709A LUT on the Sony's… maybe a bit less complicated to understand and straight to the point : http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2014/06/f55-matches-arri-alexas-color/

You can also just record in plain slog3, monitor with the LUT and later in post apply the LUT incase you want to try other ones or tweak the contrast.

Also if recording in slog3 but monitoring with a LUT enabled, be cautious of the mapped values for middle grey and 90% white:

Screen%20Shot%202015-10-04%20at%209.00.23%20PM_zpsngajezby.png
Click to expand...

Good info, but can you enable waveform on the monitor while using Slog3? My understanding was you could not, which took me by surprise.

Will the LUT not give a reasonable approximation of final image when it comes to post-correction? I was shooting under the assumption that it was fairly close to accurate and to err on the side of slight overexposure when shooting in Slog3.
 
traviswears said:
Good info, but can you enable waveform on the monitor while using Slog3? My understanding was you could not, which took me by surprise.

Will the LUT not give a reasonable approximation of final image when it comes to post-correction? I was shooting under the assumption that it was fairly close to accurate and to err on the side of slight overexposure when shooting in Slog3.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I set zebras to my 90% white values (lut on and lut off) so I can nail these values when I have a moment to card.
 
traviswears said:
Good info, but can you enable waveform on the monitor while using Slog3? My understanding was you could not, which took me by surprise.

Will the LUT not give a reasonable approximation of final image when it comes to post-correction? I was shooting under the assumption that it was fairly close to accurate and to err on the side of slight overexposure when shooting in Slog3.
Click to expand...

You can only enable WFM on the FS7 if ALL MLUTS are ON or all of them are OFF. The F5/F55 does not have this issue.

With the LUT enabled for viewing and recording, sure, it more or less becomes WYSIWYG - but if you are not baking in the LUT and you will record slog2/3 underneath to the internal media but use LUT for monitoring then the table I posted can help keep your slog exposure in check providing you have WFM on an external monitor… or you temporarily enable recording MLUT internally on the FS7 to get the WFM up… just don't forget to turn it back off again which can happen and why I'd avoid it that method.

I'd suggest you get yourself a good external monitor with WFM.
 
starcentral said:
You can only enable WFM on the FS7 if ALL MLUTS are ON or all of them are OFF. The F5/F55 does not have this issue.

With the LUT enabled for viewing and recording, sure, it more or less becomes WYSIWYG - but if you are not baking in the LUT and you will record slog2/3 underneath to the internal media but use LUT for monitoring then the table I posted can help keep your slog exposure in check providing you have WFM on an external monitor… or you temporarily enable recording MLUT internally on the FS7 to get the WFM up… just don't forget to turn it back off again which can happen and why I'd avoid it that method.

I'd suggest you get yourself a good external monitor with WFM.
Click to expand...

I have the SmallHD 702 but it's a little large for run 'n gun. I'm confused as to why Sony left out the waveforms on log profiles. Maybe this will be fixed in FW 3.0?

Lots to learn coming over from Canon! Not that they do everything perfectly either. This is all super helpful stuff Dennis, thanks.
 
traviswears said:
I'm confused as to why Sony left out the waveforms on log profiles.
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The real head scratcher is that the waveform remains on the overlays for HDMI/SDI signal out. The camera is still able to do it but for some unknown reason can't feed it to the VF stream just HDMI/SDI.

I don't expect it to be fixed in FW3.0 so I've created workarounds. I just wish you could assign VF lut on/off to a single button. FW3.0 has a ton of new features to add but I won't hold my breath for quirk fixes.

I've grown to love the hi/lo function with a lut on to peek into the shadows/highlights in the underlying Slog3.
 
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Lenilenapi said:
Mixed lighting can be very difficult in CINE EI as you are limited to 3 preset color temps. Look for a nice basic set-up in Custom with a good looking matrix and then get skilled at adjusting some of the basic parameters - matrix level, phase etc to optimize your look & color balance. You can learn to get a very nice looking picture .
Click to expand...

I actually find the three preset WB in Cine EI to work perfect for me. I then push the final colour decision to the post process and it always looks fine as long as I'm in the same ballpark.
 
^ Same here... so long as I'm doing the grading.... never like to hand over stuff "in the ballpark" unless I've worked with the person before and they know exactly why it's not spot on
 
My impression - perhaps wrong - was that that OP wanted a WYSIWYG look. Island, are you talking about a burned in LUT or just Slog3 . In the latter case of course the presets are find to shoot Slog and adjust in post. For a burned in LUT that's dicier.
 
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