Why so much Nastiness here? Really unnecessary!

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Wilbur Eddings

Wilbur Eddings

Well-known member
EDIT: Changed the title to something more positive.


Dear Mods, Admins and Forum Members.

I was reading through the wonderful (sic) comments in the Af100 forum and had a moment of deja-vu. I remember getting the same feeling reading the teen-age flame n bake fests on the World of Warcraft forums a few years back. Back then i wondered why kids bothered to play the damn game if they were so unhappy with it...

I get the same sense here sometimes - Remember I'm a DVXuser N00b - looking for answers but finding squabble fests and pissing competitions instead.

Is this the example we want the young film makers of the future to follow?
There are also many really great threads here but it only takes a few drops of poison to ruin a whole jug of water....

I love making movies, it's all I want to do - I am passionate about it - for better or for worse - and when I stumbled on these forums I thought I had found people who share that passion.

Anyhoo...

The comments on Phillips work are inexcusable.

Breaking down each others' work like mirror w@nking film critics does not inspire the confidence to share ideas and ask 'stupid' questions.

Wether it is Phillip or some 13 year old kid posting his first attempt, respect is a very low currency to pay for high caliber experts and juniors alike to keep sharing their work here!

Let me tell you, right now I sure as hell won't share my work here. - I have enough on my hands with movie critics ripping my work to shreds! In my opinion, critics are the AIDS of any artistic expression! They don't make me a better film maker, they force me to fight my creative insecurity even harder. They rip into every weakness and expose your weaknesses to the whole world. Cancerous bastards.

So regarding DVXuser - a community of film makers.
If we can't share our work here where criticism can be truly constructive then where can we?


Or am I wrong in my expectations?
Should I hang out on a different forum?
Do I have the wrong mindset for this community?
Am I too 'touchy' for this forum?

I don't know if anyone will even read this, but if you do, I would like to encourage you to stay as positive and excited as a kid about every aspect of film making.
Throw yourself passionately into this wonderful field you have chosen and do everything in your power to NEVER partake in slander and other sowing of negative seeds. Ask questions and make observations with the utmost respect for the person you are addressing - honor is not old fashioned, it is the father of favor and promotion!

It's so difficult to find a safe place to share your thoughts about something you are passionate about. When you do, protect that place with all your heart. There is enough negativity, dishonor and slander in the outside world!

0.02c
 
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The site has changed a lot over the years.

Back when it started, it definitely felt like everyone was celebrating everyone else's work and the tools we had to work with. :)

Now, there is a new crop of people who can't wait to rip each other and the tools apart. :(

DVXuser is still awesome - it's my favorite filmmaking site - but the rampant negativity sucks.
 
I've found that negativity is usually squelched pretty quickly around here and it's relatively rare. Most folks are respectful on DVXUser and the moderators and administrators work hard to quickly discourage postings that don't follow the rules (or the spirit of the rules). I guess new camera discussions tend to engender emotivity.
 
Chris Messineo said:
The site has changed a lot over the years.

Back when it started, it definitely felt like everyone was celebrating everyone else's work and the tools we had to work with. :)

Now, there is a new crop of people who can't wait to rip each other and the tools apart. :(

DVXuser is still awesome - it's my favorite filmmaking site - but the rampant negativity sucks.
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Funny, in the DVXuser Film Festivals the feedback is usually quite positive. Its extremely rare that someone rips apart someone else's work in a Fest. Extremely rare.

All the "Must have the next new toy" stuff gets some people on edge.
They are usually the same people that never do anything with them. :)
 
To me, it does seem to have increased lately, especially in technical discussions, gets kinda painful sorting through the venom for actual good information.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Funny, in the DVXuser Film Festivals the feedback is usually quite positive. Its extremely rare that someone rips apart someone else's work in a Fest. Extremely rare.
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I agree, in the film festivals, at times it can almost feel too kind, with people so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they don't always offer honest criticism.
 
Chris Messineo said:
I agree, in the film festivals, at times it can almost feel too kind, with people so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they don't always offer honest criticism.
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No worries. There were one or two "This Sucks!" to help balance the scales. :)

Really though, people can offer criticism without being an ass.
It's the rude and ignorant comments that have no place here.
 
I feel like the low cost of getting into filmmaking via DSLR has caused a rapid jump in the number of "experts" on this board. Putting people down or saying something sucks or what you're shooting with is crap probably makes people appear like they know more, so they do it.

It seems like insecurity to me. Alot of people who think of themselves as a filmmakers since they own a DSLR now feel the obligation to defend their cameras/work they do on those cameras against more professional/spendy equipment.

I'm not dissing DSLR users... I have two and their my main cameras... but people have to understand that their is a place for every camera. And it's ok for a more expensive camera to be better than yours. And it's ok to realize that some projects aren't meant for DSLR work. And so on.

My 2 cents :) I still come here 10 times a day.
 
awelgraven said:
I feel like the low cost of getting into filmmaking via DSLR has caused a rapid jump in the number of "experts" on this board. Putting people down or saying something sucks or what you're shooting with is crap probably makes people appear like they know more, so they do it.

It seems like insecurity to me. Alot of people who think of themselves as a filmmakers since they own a DSLR now feel the obligation to defend their cameras/work they do on those cameras against more professional/spendy equipment.

I'm not dissing DSLR users... I have two and their my main cameras... but people have to understand that their is a place for every camera. And it's ok for a more expensive camera to be better than yours. And it's ok to realize that some projects aren't meant for DSLR work. And so on.

My 2 cents :) I still come here 10 times a day.
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I think that's the WHOLE PROBLEM right there.

The mods try to maintain a level of respect on the boards, while letting people feel free to say what they want to say... it's a fine line... and there are always plenty of people who have no self-awareness about the things they say, how they say it, and how it will OBVIOUSLY be taken, by the other party.

Unfortunately respect is something that's hard to ensure in an anonymous environment... but the mods work on this every day... and if somebody repeatedly shows they have no intention of showing other members any respect... they get tossed out.
 
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First, I want to publicly apologize if I have been rude, petty, disrespectful, or contrary in any of my postings about the AF-100.

The way I see it, the short films being posted are being evaluated differently by every individual. Some people are just happy to see 1080p footage with shallow depth of field that isn't full of aliasing and moire. Others are more critical and are looking at the apparent color rendition, highlight roll-off, luma vs. chroma noise, etc. Of course, trying to evaluate those things based off of web-compressed video is far from the best manner, people will always judge what they can, especially when they have money on the line.

Right now, the only clip I have bothered to really give a good look at is the short clip Barry posted. And I responded with how I felt about it - there are some parts about the image that I take issue with, but on the whole I think the camera is a big step in the right direction and is opening doors for a new era for video.

Honestly, I feel like the fervor of the forum itself contributes to the additional issue of "overhyping" - individuals from virtually every form of production, at one point, saw this camera as the best camera. Period. Which, of course, simply isn't the case - different people have different shooting styles, different imaging needs, and different equipment capabilities. Essentially, everyone from every level of need was looking on this camera to the the one for them. And then it happened. Specs started to roll out.

Those who wanted a servo lens were disappointed. Those who wanted onboard P2 were disappointed. Those who wanted onboard 8-bit 4:2:2 were disappointed. And those who wanted 10-bit HD-SDI were disappointed. No camera can be everything to everyone, and people were figuring out what wasn't going to work for them. The same thing is now happening with footage (though one could argue that it shouldn't be happening, since there isn't much to judge by).

So the lesson? When people are thinking - whether they should or not - that a camera is going to be best thing since sweet potato jam, and then it turns out to merely be a great value, they get upset.

That being said, I feel that criticism is just fine. If I post something publicly, be it in an online forum, on a local theatre, a classroom, or a film festival I expect criticism. I certainly hope it will be constructive criticism, but I understand that not everyone will absolutely adore what I do. So I do dislike the extent of absolutely non-constructive criticism that is being thrown about. If I were to every say that something was "awful" I would at least attempt to qualify why I thought it was so poorly done.

I honestly think the whole situation could use a little context and a little less militarism. These are just cameras, not family members.
 
boys and their toys :)

It's always been around, but the size increases its prevalence for sure... people start talking about their tools, and they get emotional.

I think the internet on the whole has become a much more disrespectful place, and it's spilling over into real life, where I often can't tell the difference between youtube comments and what I might hear on the news for example :)

anyways... It is a bit of a fine line (for us) and one of the challenges of becoming this large. We don't want to just go hardcore on people's posts here too much b/c it often has the opposite of the intended effect. Swallowing up too much time dealing with people who can't be dealt with, etc. You'd be surprised what even a casual note of "hey, let's relax a little" can invoke from people sometimes.

Deleting a post solely b/c of its tone/rudeness often invokes "you're just censoring me b/c you don't agree with my viewpoint!" kind of stuff that no one really wants to deal with.

All of that said, one of the things we are working on is trying to bring an effective post rating system into play (particularly in the camera discussion sections)... nothing too hardcore, or complex... Kind of thinking of a positive only rating system for posts. Read a post, like it, give it a +. Then folks can come into a thread and, if they desire, can chop out all of the noise by selecting "view only positive posts in this thread"...

something like that... so, the noise will still be there, but the goal (whatever we end up implementing) will be that someone can easily bypass most of the noise and just read the meat of threads. Alternatively, a pos/neg system could come into play, where posts that get voted down (by respected members) x amount of times automatically become invisible, and are only viewed on clickable action by the reader.

REMEMBER, it's not the viewpoints that we want to discourage. It's the attitude, immaturity, disrespect, and EMOTION that goes along with many of them.
 
I just saw your video in the fest forum Zak and came to the cafe to post it up and saw this thread.

The other thing I wanted to do is continue with a thought from something Barry posted - which is part of the reason I like your video so much.

And here's my challenge to the membership. Barry's right - so many people on here ridiculing what other people are doing generally. I know I dont bother to post any clips in the forum anymore for the same reasons that came from that AF100 thread - too many people waiting in the wings to take a cheap shot at it. Some are just downright rude.

So to all the membership - why not show us what you can do and join the fest. I dont mean this in a way that we can all then be condescending to you - I mean it in a way because you can be involved with other members here and experience something together. Im in Australia and I can almost certainly guarantee Ive met more of the members here in the states than many of you who actually live there. DVXuser is a great site and one of the things thats always fed this is collaboration with other members, weather through talking face to face and helping each other with fest projects or outside DVXuser projects or long distance by getting script feedback etc etc. DVXuser kicks ass for these kind of things.

Ive had people Ive met through DVXuser come and work on some big jobs with me, an experience they may not have got otherwise and Ive worked along side a few members - this is paid stuff.

Anyway get in there and have a go - see what's possible. You see the forgotten bomb link in my signature? I got that job via someone who saw me on dvxuser. And guess what? Thats lead to other jobs. Last year I worked on a fox sports docu series that aired in the US through a recommendation from the forgotten bomb producers. And those jobs keep on coming. Pretty awesome dont you think that me a guy in Australia is contacted by these producers in the US asking me to work for them because of something I posted on DVXuser years ago that lead to one job and then another and then another...

Get in there folks, stop belittling each other and dig in and meet your peers / help your peers and just have a go, youll also be surprised how supportive DVXuser can then be and what a great experience you can have here.
 
Using the report function for offensive, rude, and insulting posts would be a big help. Sometimes people have an itchy trigger finger on that, but on the whole, it really helps us be aware of what's going on.

Heads that need to be busted will be busted. We've done it before; we'll do it again; people who don't want to be respectful aren't welcome here and won't be missed when they're gone. So, let us know.
 
David Jimerson said:
Using the report function for offensive, rude, and insulting posts would be a big help. Sometimes people have an itchy trigger finger on that, but on the whole, it really helps us be aware of what's going on.

Heads that need to be busted will be busted. We've done it before; we'll do it again; people who don't want to be respectful aren't welcome here and won't be missed when they're gone. So, let us know.
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+1
 
can't we all come together as a film making community, put our bickering aside, stop all the unnecessary attacks, and agree that the real problem here is that bloom is a poser.

just kidding. :evil:

if i were to give an analogy, i'd say this website is sort of like telling stories around a campfire. there are a whole lot of people that know how to build the fire and they go back and forth about the best way to do it. there aren't as many people that can tell a good story once the campfire is made.
 
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