Why shoot 30P?

[benjamin222]

...by the way I highly recommend making at least one of your scene files a 30p mode. There are tons of different projects that benefit from it, especially if you're filming something with a lot of action or you're filming for a television show that broadcasts 720p 30 fps.

 

[ArtsnFartsNCrafts]

It should be noted, that the film 28 Days Later was filmed on Canon XL2 cameras in 30p. I'm pretty sure they used pull-down to make it 24p in the cinemas, which gives it a cool effect, if you ask me. But if you watch the making of featurette on the original DVD release, you can see the footage prior to the conversion to 24p, and it's clearly 30p.

 

[David Jimerson]

28 Days Later was shot on the Canon XL1s in PAL Frame mode, which is the functional equivalent of 25p (though it's by no means real 25p). The end of it was shot on 35mm film.

You cannot make a good conversion of 30p to 24p unless you have almost no motion in the shot (or you're going with 80% slo-mo).

 

[David Jimerson]

30p is perfect for straight-to-internet videos. Great motion that still retains film-like qualities, and of course no de-interlacing necessary on computer monitors. Also it looks great when upscaled for youtube HD.

Whether or not the motion is "great" is mostly a function of your personal preference. The relative strobiness of 24p is part of what makes it look like what you see in movie theaters.

Now, 30p is better if you want to move the camera around more freely; shooting in 24p takes more discipline and slower camera moves -- but you have the exact same situation shooting 24 fps film.

But it's a matter of preference, and nothing else. Choosing 30p over 24p (or over 60i, for that matter) is entirely a stylistic choice.

 

[vxdvx]

Assuming you mean you want to shoot 30p for slo-mo when the rest of your footage is 24p, you would edit on a 24p timeline, and then slow the 30p footage down to 80%.

hey so im new to this 30p24p60i stuff and im reading thru things but i came across this in the dvx100b manual
l
l
V
30p mode
shoot 30 frames per second in progressive mode. For output and recording the 30-frame-per-second signal is converted to 60-field-per-second interlace. This mode gives you high quality images.

wat exactly does this mean? (that 30p slowed 80% is 60i...i dont think soo?)

thanks

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

hey so im new to this 30p24p60i stuff and im reading thru things but i came across this in the dvx100b manual
l
l
V
30p mode
shoot 30 frames per second in progressive mode. For output and recording the 30-frame-per-second signal is converted to 60-field-per-second interlace. This mode gives you high quality images.

wat exactly does this mean? (that 30p slowed 80% is 60i...i dont think soo?)

thanks

The manual is referring to the fact the tape runs at 60 interlaced. It takes each 30P frame and splits up to two half frames. Frame 1 all the odd lines and Frame 2 all the even lines, and it is then laid to tape that way.

When you shoot 24p (or pA), it does a 2:3 (or 2:3:3:2 in pA) pull down, it uses the first frame twice and then the second frame three times, to get to 60i.

The slowing stuff down in a NLE has nothing to do with the manual is saying.

Interlaced for the most part is pretty much on the way out. I'd say avoid it as much as possible. The only interlaced stuff in HD is 1080/60i... all 720 formats are Progressive.

 

[vxdvx]

The manual is referring to the fact the tape runs at 60 interlaced. It takes each 30P frame and splits up to two half frames. Frame 1 all the odd lines and Frame 2 all the even lines, and it is then laid to tape that way.

When you shoot 24p (or pA), it does a 2:3 (or 2:3:3:2 in pA) pull down, it uses the first frame twice and then the second frame three times, to get to 60i.

The slowing stuff down in a NLE has nothing to do with the manual is saying.

Interlaced for the most part is pretty much on the way out. I'd say avoid it as much as possible. The only interlaced stuff in HD is 1080/60i... all 720 formats are Progressive.

okk i see now wat the manual is saying.

and as far as the 60i, i cant seem to find the option on the camera? And also when u say "it" uses the first frame twice and the second frame 3x, ur talking about 60i not from the 24p right?

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

okk i see now wat the manual is saying.

and as far as the 60i, i cant seem to find the option on the camera? And also when u say "it" uses the first frame twice and the second frame 3x, ur talking about 60i not from the 24p right?

If you shoot 24p

Frame 1 becomes 1 and 2, Frame 2 becomes 3,4 and 5, Frame 3 becomes 6 and 7, ect.

basically:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24

becomes:


1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, ect.



If you shoot 24pA:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24

becomes:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, ect.

So it places those 24 frames into the 60i.

(I underlined just give the numbers some more seperation.)

 

[David Jimerson]

and as far as the 60i, i cant seem to find the option on the camera?

Progressive OFF is 60i.

And also when u say "it" uses the first frame twice and the second frame 3x, ur talking about 60i not from the 24p right?

The best way to undersand the difference between 24pA and 24p is this:

In order to remove pulldown, fields have to be stitched back together into frames.

If you stitch the fields together in order (1-2 into a frame, 3-4 into a frame, 5-6 into a frame, etc.), you end up with 30 frames (per second) made from the fields.

With 24pA, getting down to 24 is easy -- you just drop every fifth frame, the frame which is made up of fields which don't match. The other four frames out of five do, leaving you with 24 perfect progressive frames.

But with 24p, you can't do that, because there are TWO frames made of fields which don't match, and only three perfect match frames. You actually have to tear apart those two mismatched frames and take one field from each to make your fourth perfect match frame.

That takes more processing power to do.

So, shooting 24pA makes pulldown removal easier.

 

[David Jimerson]

wat exactly does this mean? (that 30p slowed 80% is 60i...i dont think soo?)

Not what I said. If you slow down 30 fps TO 80%, you get 24 fps. Thus, on a 24p timeline, each 30p frame matches a 24p frame, giving you smooth slo-mo with no need to interpolate any frames.

The confusing thing is that editing systems will call BOTH 60i and 30p "29.97," but it's more accurate to call 60i "59.94" -- because that's how many images it records per second, even if they're half-images (interlace fields instead of full frames). That's why the motion looks different -- 60i has twice as many images per second as 30p.

 

[vxdvx]

Not what I said. If you slow down 30 fps TO 80%, you get 24 fps. Thus, on a 24p timeline, each 30p frame matches a 24p frame, giving you smooth slo-mo with no need to interpolate any frames.

The confusing thing is that editing systems will call BOTH 60i and 30p "29.97," but it's more accurate to call 60i "59.94" -- because that's how many images it records per second, even if they're half-images (interlace fields instead of full frames). That's why the motion looks different -- 60i has twice as many images per second as 30p.

sorry i wasnt saying thats what u said... i was just confused about it...

 

[Peter Reynolds]

I shoot exclusively in 30p on my DVX100b.

All my work is corporate, so I try to walk the line between too video and too filmic. 30P also gives me all the advantages of shooting progressive, without jittery motion during pans.

Shooting 24p for say, a podium speech, can look odd to a client when they're expecting that crisp video look. 30p gives you the best of both worlds. At least in my opinion.

 

[vxdvx]

If you shoot 24p

Frame 1 becomes 1 and 2, Frame 2 becomes 3,4 and 5, Frame 3 becomes 6 and 7, ect.

basically:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24

becomes:


1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, ect.



If you shoot 24pA:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24

becomes:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, ect.

So it places those 24 frames into the 60i.

(I underlined just give the numbers some more seperation.)

awwh i see thats real helpful

 

[vxdvx]

Progressive OFF is 60i..

okay so wen someone has that smooth slow mo shot and they say its 60i its just non progressive footage slowed down?

The best way to undersand the difference between 24pA and 24p is this:

In order to remove pulldown, fields have to be stitched back together into frames.

If you stitch the fields together in order (1-2 into a frame, 3-4 into a frame, 5-6 into a frame, etc.), you end up with 30 frames (per second) made from the fields.

With 24pA, getting down to 24 is easy -- you just drop every fifth frame, the frame which is made up of fields which don't match. The other four frames out of five do, leaving you with 24 perfect progressive frames.

But with 24p, you can't do that, because there are TWO frames made of fields which don't match, and only three perfect match frames. You actually have to tear apart those two mismatched frames and take one field from each to make your fourth perfect match frame.

That takes more processing power to do.

So, shooting 24pA makes pulldown removal easier.

and if im going to be doing pulldown removal shoot 24pa. but in general 24pa would be the more efficient choice.

 

[David Jimerson]

okay so wen someone has that smooth slow mo shot and they say its 60i its just non progressive footage slowed down?

In terms of the DVX menu selections, yes. 60i slowed to 40% on a 24p timeline.

and if im going to be doing pulldown removal shoot 24pa. but in general 24pa would be the more efficient choice.

If you're going to edit as 24p (which would mean removing pulldown), shoot 24pA.

If you're going to edit as 60i (which means NOT removing pulldown), shoot 24p standard.

You should always edit 24p footage as 24p unless you're mixing with 30p, or with 60i that you want to keep as 60i (no slo-mo, no conversion to 24p). Iin either case, edit on a 60i timeilne.

 

[vxdvx]

In terms of the DVX menu selections, yes. 60i slowed to 40% on a 24p timeline.






If you're going to edit as 24p (which would mean removing pulldown), shoot 24pA.

If you're going to edit as 60i (which means NOT removing pulldown), shoot 24p standard.

You should always edit 24p footage as 24p unless you're mixing with 30p, or with 60i that you want to keep as 60i (no slo-mo, no conversion to 24p). Iin either case, edit on a 60i timeilne.

straight to the point, got it.