I'm still learning about the HVX200, so i'm just going off what i've read. Please correct me if i'm wrong. But i read that the HVX200's 1080p is just pixel-shifted 720p. I dont really understand how pixel shift works, does it mean its up-rendering to fit 1080p and stretching the pixels? If so, wouldnt it be better just to shoot at 720p and get a sharper image?
Why shoot 1080p on HVX200?
- Thread starter mrbrycel
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This is covered pretty thoroughly in a lot of threads.
Many cameras pixel-shift for a higher resolution. It's a tried-and-true technology.
Everything is shot at 1080 and processed down for the other modes, not the other way around. 1080 is noticeably, palpably sharper than 720.
So suffice it to say, except for variable frame rates and space savings on the P2 cards, no, shooting 720 is not better.
Many cameras pixel-shift for a higher resolution. It's a tried-and-true technology.
Everything is shot at 1080 and processed down for the other modes, not the other way around. 1080 is noticeably, palpably sharper than 720.
So suffice it to say, except for variable frame rates and space savings on the P2 cards, no, shooting 720 is not better.
hdimages.ca
Well-known member
no everything starts at 1080p and then get knocked down from there. lots of threads already on this ,check it out with the search tool.
Filmbuff28
Well-known member
No. Is the short answer. This topic has been killed in many threads and you can search "1080 vs 720" and you should hit one.
The HVX is a 1080p camera. Meaning it captures all of its images in 1080p and then downrezes to the other formats as necessary. The pixel shifting is a technology that allows you to achieve higher resolution using lower pixel arrays. It does not interpolate, uprez or fake its HD content.
As to "why shoot in 1080". It has both pros and cons. The pros are that it gives you about 15-20% more rez than 720p when shooting 1080 30p or 1080 24pA. It also has much less compression than 720p which ultimately means a better/cleaner image for post work.
The con is only singular in my mind. It uses more than twice the memory that 720p 24pn uses. This means you need more storage to shoot in 1080.
Hope this answers your questions.
JP
The HVX is a 1080p camera. Meaning it captures all of its images in 1080p and then downrezes to the other formats as necessary. The pixel shifting is a technology that allows you to achieve higher resolution using lower pixel arrays. It does not interpolate, uprez or fake its HD content.
As to "why shoot in 1080". It has both pros and cons. The pros are that it gives you about 15-20% more rez than 720p when shooting 1080 30p or 1080 24pA. It also has much less compression than 720p which ultimately means a better/cleaner image for post work.
The con is only singular in my mind. It uses more than twice the memory that 720p 24pn uses. This means you need more storage to shoot in 1080.
Hope this answers your questions.
JP
Steve Laramie
Veteran
uhmm i know this is probably a dumb question but how do you get it to be 1080p I only see options for 1080i. I have an hvx200a.
Recording modes like 1080i/24PA use progressive images that are embedded in an interlaced transport stream. While the image is stored as two separate odd and even line half-frames, you still have a true progressive image where the entire frame was captured at the same point in time.
I can't get 1080 24PA to work properly on a Mac, I will get top edge artifacting. Must zoom in or crop.
bill totolo
Veteran
I believe the native resolution of the camera is 960x540. The upscaling to 1080 is pretty gnarly and (I think) better executed in post production. I just shot a commercial that will air in theaters and tested 720 v 1080 blown up to 42" using test charts.
Also just for fun I compared this to the Sony F900. Admittedly it's not a fair test and, as expected, the results weren't close.
Calling the HVX a 1080 camera is slightly misleading, I'd say. IMHO.
Also just for fun I compared this to the Sony F900. Admittedly it's not a fair test and, as expected, the results weren't close.
Calling the HVX a 1080 camera is slightly misleading, I'd say. IMHO.
John Caballero
Veteran
This topic have been discussed by Barry Green in this forum so many times in the last few years is not funny. Maybe doing a search will help find some of the items and expert commentary on this subject from him.
Did your tests demonstrate that 1080p on the HVX has more resolution than 720p on the HVX? You forgot to mention that.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Whatever. Let's just say your results are diametrically opposed to everyone else's. There is no "upscaling", and the 1080 images are unquestionably sharper than the 720 images.
Neither are the price tags. However, the folks shooting "The 4400" tested them and found the HVX plenty appropriate for use as a b-camera with the F900.
It isn't as sharp as a 2/3" or 1/2" 1920x1080 sensor, that much is true. But its 1080 is definitely sharper than its 720, and if you want the most the HVX can deliver then 1080 mode is the way to go.
bill totolo
Veteran
Well it demonstrated a lot more jagged edges on the straight edge of a siemens star. That to me isn't sharper.
Thomas Worth
Active member
You're kidding, right? How can the camera not be upscaling when the sensors do not even resolve anywhere near 1080 lines? Even with pixel shift, interpolation must take place to give a 1080p image. If instructed to, the upscaling algorithm in the camera could interpolate 540 lines to whatever it wants! That's how andromeda was getting 720p from a DVX100 -- it was simply un-pixel shifting to 720p, even though everyone knows the sensors cannot resolve that much information. The software could have easily been instructed to produce a 1080p image, or a 2K or even 4K image! That's how Red gets 4K out of a Bayer sensor, by demosaicing (which includes some hefty interpolation).
1080p images from an HVX are NOT unquestionably sharper. The 1280 pixel width is shared with 24pn modes, so there is unquestionably NO additional horizontal resolution. The only way the image would appear sharper is if you were using an upscaling algorithm in post that was inferior to the in-camera scaler (not likely). To me, this is merely a feature thrown in for convenience, and to remain competitive with 1080i HDV cameras.
In addition, 1080p/24 footage from an HVX (which is reverse-telecined from 1080i/59.94 NTSC), suffers from greater compression due to the fact that DVCPROHD tops out at 100mbps. Compressing a 1080p frame (1280x1080), will discard more information than a 720p frame (1280x720). So even IF there were more resolution, there would still be losses due to the increased compression!
Sorry to differ, but this is rubbish. The camera tops out at 720p (not even). Don't waste your time.
Al MacLeod
Well-known member
Thunder Dome!!!
Two go in...
One comes out!!!
Two go in...
One comes out!!!
Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
Thats odd. Just did a 1080 shoot last week and accidentally recorded some b-roll in 720 and then shot the same shot again in 1080. There's quite the noticeable difference between the two. 720 looks fantastic. 1080 looks fan ****ing tastic. Ran this footage back on several monitors with the same result. Must just be my mad dp'ing skilz.
eta - Al - freaking hilarious and oh so true. Just to settle it all - my camera is better than everyone elses.
Thomas Worth
Active member
This is probably because the MONITOR you were viewing it on was doing the upscaling from 720p to 1080p/i using its built-in hardware scaler, which is quick-and-dirty (and thus not optimal). I realized this in my own tests. The 720p footage must be scaled in software for the best result. After doing so, it is indistinguishable from stuff shot 1080p/i, and for good reason -- both are upscaled.
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