Why P2 has the potential to make you all jealous

C

contentlab

Well-known member
How can i put this w/o causing a major flame war?

I attended ResFest this weekend in SF and spoke with Jan and the other Pansonic rep about their cameras. I didn't ask any questions about the HVX because I've been reading various forums and really by this point there are no new questions, just new people asking them. (I stole that phrasing from Jan's presentation on Saturday). Plus as an engineer for a video semiconductor company I can understand and sympathize with the Panasonic folks who have to hear the same questions over and over and over again. I asked them if they take any special vitamins for dealing with the same questions all day long and they simultaneously answered "wine".

Instead I chatted with them about the Varicam and rumors I heard from my film production friends that a new Varicam will be introduced next year(?) that does 720P and 1080i capture. I forget the name of the guy I was speaking to but he then added that the additional rumor is that this new Varicam will make use of P2 cards. and the rumor to follow that is that someday the Varicam with large enough P2 cards (possibly facilitated by Samsungs news release last week) will be able to record using the D5 HD codec, not just DVCProHD, but full 10bit uncompressed HD. He made sure to state that those are just the rumors going around with a certain twinkle in his eye.

However just imagine being able to record 10bit uncompressed HD in the field without having to lug around a monster D5 deck. Also remembering that recording on current Varicams to DVCProHD is only limited to 8bit due to the fact that tape of that size just can't handle 10bit data.

Yes these are purely rumors disseminated by Panasonic staff but what it shows to me is that Panasonic has a plan to use the insane 640Mbps data rate of the P2 cards. Which is why they probably aren't bothering with HDV, Iomega, CF, 3.5"floppy or whatever other media that some in this and other forums think is ADEQUATE enough just to capture DVCProHD. It seems to me that some engineers are really looking far into the future of what is capable with P2 technology.

Note these are just my opinions and hearsay but still its starting to make even more sense why they have chosen to stick with P2, and not just how it applies to the HVX but how it will be used by their entire camera line now and several years into the future.
 
Yep P2 has that potential. Too bad it is still just potential...

BTW, let's hope it won't end up as "it had big potential...". Tape should dissapear and memory-cards like P2 is just the only way forward. Not just yet for video though. The capacities are still too small for most applications (and too expensive to boot)
 
BTW, if they would use the 640 Mb of datarate on the cards now, these cards would be damn fast filled.... :-)

And surely changing a card every few seconds won't be that practical? :-)
 
I agree with the idea P2 is here to stay...and will not be another M2. Flash storage killed the floppy drive....solid state will eventually kill off tape.

Why? Well, no drop outs. No capturing footage ( I really hate this part of editing ) Instant dailies!!!! NO MOVING PARTS!! Also, no tapedecks...thats a huge costs savings. (at least, you don't need a deck to work in DVCPRO 50 or 100). I say that because my workflow usually goes to DVD or DVCAM or Beta SP for broadcast. Most corporate stuff goes straight to DVD...soon to Blue Ray DVD.

Yes, P2 is expensive, and it will continue to be compared to tape. But capacity will increase...price will decrease and the speed and durability of P2 will allow other codecs and formats to be used with future panny products. Video tape could never hold the bandwith of uncompressed HD. P2 will eventually.

Would anyone here ditch your 320 gig 7200 rpm harddrives for the tapedrives of yore? I didn't think so. Solid state rules. Eventually computers wont spin hard drives at all, it will all be flash based.

How can anyone compare P2 to XDCAM? please. DVD is a great distribution format...not a good acquisition format. :beer: :beer:
 
esperman said:
How can anyone compare P2 to XDCAM? please. DVD is a great distribution format...not a good acquisition format. :beer: :beer:
Click to expand...

I fully agree.:thumbsup:
 
Speaking of Varicam P2 rumors...here's a great one I heard from a rep at a show.
A P2 Varicam may have the ability to shoot up to 100fps.
According to him, the only thing holding the camera back now in terms of variable frame speed is the tape transport. The chips can capture faster than 60... and he claimed possibly up to 100fps.

Pretty cool.
 
If I can get a 120 gb P2 card for a 1-2G that sounds like a plan, until then it's not even worth thinking about for me.

-Nate
 
esperman said:
I agree with the idea P2 is here to stay...and will not be another M2. Flash storage killed the floppy drive....solid state will eventually kill off tape.

Would anyone here ditch your 320 gig 7200 rpm harddrives for the tapedrives of yore? I didn't think so. Solid state rules. Eventually computers wont spin hard drives at all, it will all be flash based.
Click to expand...

the cool thing about driveless computers or cameras w/o tape drives would be a drastic drop in energy consumption. i would certainly enjoy a flash based laptop that i can use on a single battery for a flight from LA to Tokyo or perhaps a camera that could shoot for that long on a single battery. though i imagine you'd have to swap a lot of P2 cards for such a flight :)
 
My concern with P2 is that it won't be able to keep up with competing technologies on the basis of capacity. People keep saying "it will get bigger"... of this we can be sure. The real question is - will it get big enough fast enough? If you ask Panasonic they'll certainly answer "yes" - but their bias is pretty transparent.

The problem is the following: Solid State memory has less capacity than competing techology - RAID hard disks - by a full order of magnitude. Two orders of magnitude if holographic technologies end up viable. And while solid state memory does have some advantages with the lack of moving parts, power consumption, etc... if it can't keep up, I doubt it will be successful - at least not this generation of the technology.

-Spiff
 
contentlab said:
a new Varicam will be introduced next year(?) that does 720P and 1080i capture... will make use of P2 cards... will be able to record using the D5 HD codec, not just DVCProHD, but full 10bit uncompressed HD.
Click to expand...
Yes, Panasonic showed a model of the VaporCam at NAB2004. They also had it out this year in the "HD-in-3D" theater at NAB. Keep in mind, however, this "camera" was nothing more than an empty ENG shell with a "HD-D5" badge. Perhaps next year we'll see an advanced developmental model.

This is their ultimate goal for P2:
Pansonic-P2-HD-D5.jpg

http://www.cinematography.com/articles/nab2004/
 
Spiff_2 said:
My concern with P2 is that it won't be able to keep up with competing technologies on the basis of capacity.
Click to expand...
The idea of dockable recorders from the "tape generation" is still viable and could be applied to the "tape-less generation." A standard form and interface could be applied to all components which would then be exchangable among manufacturers. As new storage technologies are introduced, users could simply pop in a new storage module, so to speak. This idea must be on the table somewhere!
 
contentlab said:
the cool thing about driveless computers or cameras w/o tape drives would be a drastic drop in energy consumption. i would certainly enjoy a flash based laptop that i can use on a single battery for a flight from LA to Tokyo or perhaps a camera that could shoot for that long on a single battery. though i imagine you'd have to swap a lot of P2 cards for such a flight :)
Click to expand...

At resfest Jan was asked about this and said that P2 would make little difference in power consumption unfortunately. :(
 
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