Why not CompactFlash?

LoneWolf

Member
Just a philosophical question, because I know there is no way this suggestion wlil ever get implemented :)

Why not CompactFlash memory instead of the horrible SDHC format?

From an engineering point of view, CF offers superior mechanical reliability. I have had SD cards snap coming out of, or being inserted into their readers, simply because they are too thin. Good brands too. CF offers a much better, and much more rugged package - size matters. It also helps that CF uses an ejector tab, instead of making you push the card in to release the spring (that's precisely where the card is weak).

The HMC150 is certainly big enough to accomodate CF, in fact dual CF would rock.

CF doesn't suffer from the "standard artificially limits us to 32GB" (used to be 2GB, transitioning from SD to SDHC) problem. Upgraded ATA, and soon to be SATA controllers on the CF cards solve this.

CF is FAST. Today's Sandisk Ultra series, their midrange product, blows away yesterday's Sandisk Extreme series, their high performance product. I have quite a few of both cards over the generations and I really enjoy the speed upgrades I get. Today's Sandisk Ultra 30MB really achieves 29-30MBytes/sec linear R/W speed for larger I/O blocks, until the card is very near saturation (about less than 100MB free space remaining). Of course today's current Extreme series has been upgraded to be incredibly fast (60-90MB!)

SD Class 6? What a laugh. (btw class 6 is 6MBytes/sec).

SD is really a consumer format meant for small, tiny camcorders. I can understand its use on say, my Canon HF100, but for my 150, it's a bit puzzling.

Anecdotally, I feel SD cards are also built to lower specs and price points. They are cheaper, but I have had 3 SD failures in the past 3 years and I have never had a CF card fail in ten years of shooting with them. (plus I have tons of CF, increasing the probability that I'll get a bad apple). I do not trust SD, full stop.

"Go P2" they say - perhaps. But a P2 workflow would add $1K to the price of my camera, $1K to the price of my media, and $1K extra for FCP since I can't 'get by' with FCE. Ouch... CF would only add say, $20 per card for big cards like 16-32GB, over the price of SDHC cards.

Personally I have come to accept SDHC as something I live with, but in a perfect world I'd love to have a HMC150 pushing AVCHD to dual CF slots as a mid-range solution short of a P2 workflow :)
 
Interesting no doubt. But.. when you talk about sdhc cards breaking when being put in and out of readers and such.. I have heard of so many people breaking the one of so many pins on the CF card. I hear all the time about having to be super careful about that.

:bath:
 
I f they had to come out with once again a new format, why (SDXD) why did they have to pick the same form factor. A card twice as thick with similar cconnections would have made the card more sturdy. That way you have it as solid as a CF but without the pins.
 
no issues here with sdcard but 3 failures in 3 years is pretty good

class 6 is fast enough for the avchd stream (which is pretty robust btw.) so theres no point in going faster unless you are dumping footages.

in my case
sd card is like dv tape except you can use it a lot more times

by the time an sd card reaches "failure"
- i wouldve earned 10x+ it cost me to buy the sd card
- Id've thrown and replaced the sd card with a newer one

so your concern may be sound at some point but it really doesnt matter in the bigger picture
 
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Interesting no doubt. But.. when you talk about sdhc cards breaking when being put in and out of readers and such.. I have heard of so many people breaking the one of so many pins on the CF card. I hear all the time about having to be super careful about that.

:bath:

Yeah, the pins are a concern, although perhaps I have been lucky. I'm not particularly careful, and it hasn't happened, although I know others who were affected.

I f they had to come out with once again a new format, why (SDXD) why did they have to pick the same form factor. A card twice as thick with similar cconnections would have made the card more sturdy. That way you have it as solid as a CF but without the pins.

That is actually a brilliant idea that would combine benefits of both formfactors, as well as allowing more physical space for memory chips.

A simple groove in the side of the card would allow similar ridges on the reader that would allow readers to hold what I'll hypothetically term "Type 1" legacy SD cards, allowing backwards compatibility, while permitting the use of "Type 2" thicker cards. Kinda like CF type 1 and type 2, DSLRs still accept both although type 2 is hardly seen nowadays.
 
There are 3 reasons:

1. Panasonic is the primary founder of the SD Association (SDA). That's really about all that needs to be said. Read the SDA wiki.

2. The pin design on the CF cards causes potential media and camera reliability issues.

3. There were fewer reliability issues prior to AVCHD being recorded to the cards. I don't think they knew there was a problem, so there was no reason to look at or develop other media.

It"s almost funny Panasonics (a founder of the SDA) own SDHC cards seem to fail just as much as the generics.

Maybe the new Toshiba SD card variants just marketed and released have better reliability. Toshiba is one of the designers of the spec and also a SDA founder.
 
by the time an sd card reaches "failure"
- i wouldve earned 10x+ it cost me to buy the sd card

But what does it cost you to lose the footage for a job? Seems like that would be more important than the cost of the media. Unless you regularly replace them, of course. It would be nice to know a realistic mean time to failure in order to make an informed decision on that, but I don't know of any data on the matter.
 
never lost footage before. by failure on my side its the card cant be read anymore and has errors so i bought a new one
 
The pins in CF card readers is a real problem I had one of these bend during a wedding and it made the camera totally unusable until it was sent to Canon for repair. SD is much more robust in my opinion.
 
The pins in CF card readers is a real problem I had one of these bend during a wedding and it made the camera totally unusable until it was sent to Canon for repair. SD is much more robust in my opinion.

SD has a more robust connection, that is true.

As far as electrically, don't know.

As far as structural strength CF wins.

As far as file system integrity and read/write management, don't know.

The CF card system is open source, non-royalty (good).

The SD card system is closed, proprietary information, royalty fee based (bad, but not as bad as Sony)
 
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