Why is there no LIGHTWORKS forum?

A quick update on Lightworks: We released Version 11 on 28th May. So many people have tried to download it that our servers are getting thrashed so we're setting up alternative download options. Sorry to anyone that's had difficulties.

If you haven't downloaded it yet, it's at www.lwks.com
 
I can't for the life of me think of why a one-time purchase option would add an entire additional code base.


if (serial number present and good) then
enable software;
elsif (subscription username/password saved) then
authenticate to server;
else
prompt for serial number or username/password;
end if;


This isn't rocket science, just programming.
 
It's nothing to do with this. We have to buy licenses for codecs and other proprietary software in both the free and the Pro versions. We giving are away (at our cost) the software in the free version, but we are obligated to track numbers. We are not, under the conditions of this software license, allowed to give a perpetual license to our users.

It isn't rocket science, it isn't just programming; it's complex legal stuff, I'm afraid.
 
David Shapton said:
BTW - The way we buy the Codec licenses is on a per-year basis; we actually would have to charge 10 x this amount if we bought them for permenant (ie non-renewable) use.

You can buy 3 year's use up front. In this business, it would be very unusual to keep the same software for longer than that.
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But what happens if for example, for some reason lightworks goes down the tubes and you end up not being able to renew these codec licenses, when all the customers sub's run out they could end up being stuck with half finished projects which are un - editable because they contain material using a now un licensed codec. This is obviously a worst case scenario, but with the state the economy's in right now you never know.
 
Joshbalti said:
But what happens if for example, for some reason lightworks goes down the tubes and you end up not being able to renew these codec licenses, when all the customers sub's run out they could end up being stuck with half finished projects which are un - editable because they contain material using a now un licensed codec. This is obviously a worst case scenario, but with the state the economy's in right now you never know.
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Well, three things.

1) Editshare is a healthy company that is expanding, despite the climate. Probably because they sell tools that make things more efficient, thereby saving money overall (sorry - this is not an advert, it's just important to understand the background to this).

2) All the codecs used are industry-standard. So there is no risk to the material itself. It would be more of a risk if Lightworks had it's own codec that wasn't available somewhere else.

3) You can always save your projects as AAF. You can then pick them up in any NLE that supports AAF.

Finally: there is a fallacy based around a misunderstanding of the nature of risk.

Some people don't fly because they think it is too dangerous. Some people won't leave the house because they think it is too dangerous. Some people stay in the house and get hit by a falling airliner or meteorite or submerged under the fallout from a volcano.

So if you don't want any risk, don't do anything. If you want to do something, then there's a risk. But most risks are so low that we go ahead with the activity anyway because the benefits far outweigh the risks.
 
My prediction is that once they release the source code, another group of programmers will eventually adopt the project and release their own versions, much like libreoffice did with the openoffice project and the multiple versions of Cinelerra, an open source editor for linux.
 
"Finally: there is a fallacy based around a misunderstanding of the nature of risk."

It's the nature of software vendors that is the issue for me. I bought a popular shot logging app a few years back. The developer/vendor walked away from the promise of transferability stated in its EULA agreement. Lesson learned. Is it fair that Lightworks be mentioned in the same post? I don't know. The old adage "if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is". The free version stays functional, and can be transferred to a new machine when the time comes? Old projects can come to life, a client wants a tweak to a two year old piece and you need the editor it was cut on to make it happen (easily). I really don't trust anybody giving stuff away.
 
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I would also throw this out there: how many other NLE's and programs that are related to editing, VFX, and other aspects to our biz that we don't create forums for? I can count many. But there are opportunities to discuss your platform.....the NLE forum has "other".

I will also add, when the platform is in use by a demographic that rivals "Avid" or "FCP".......you can guarantee it will be segregated into it's own forum. But trying to develop a buzz for it by complaining about it's absence here may not really help you in the long run. Matter of fact.....that could be considered negative publicity that you are doing on the behalf of Lightworks. I mean....you were the one that either brought it up and/or supported the contention. And any PR person would have advised you to have worked behind the scenes.

Have you talked to the admins about doing advertising and becoming a sponsored member here to help you spread the word? Word of mouth only goes so far. If you truly believe in the product, and you have industry people willing to put their names behind your product.........then it is time to pony up and buy ad space, not only here but across the web. Go to conventions and have a booth, host symposia, etc. That's the way to really get the word out.

But this aspect of "advertising" that is happening in this thread does not help you. No website/forum will accept a sense of blackmail or "popular pressure" just because. There has to be a definitive reason to add a sub-forum, and if there is not a demographical reason to do so.............it may end up hurting your efforts to spread the word.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
I would also throw this out there: how many other NLE's and programs that are related to editing, VFX, and other aspects to our biz that we don't create forums for? I can count many. But there are opportunities to discuss your platform.....the NLE forum has "other".

I will also add, when the platform is in use by a demographic that rivals "Avid" or "FCP".......you can guarantee it will be segregated into it's own forum. But trying to develop a buzz for it by complaining about it's absence here may not really help you in the long run. Matter of fact.....that could be considered negative publicity that you are doing on the behalf of Lightworks. I mean....you were the one that either brought it up and/or supported the contention. And any PR person would have advised you to have worked behind the scenes.

Have you talked to the admins about doing advertising and becoming a sponsored member here to help you spread the word? Word of mouth only goes so far. If you truly believe in the product, and you have industry people willing to put their names behind your product.........then it is time to pony up and buy ad space, not only here but across the web. Go to conventions and have a booth, host symposia, etc. That's the way to really get the word out.

But this aspect of "advertising" that is happening in this thread does not help you. No website/forum will accept a sense of blackmail or "popular pressure" just because. There has to be a definitive reason to add a sub-forum, and if there is not a demographical reason to do so.............it may end up hurting your efforts to spread the word.
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I'm not sure whether this comment is aimed at me, as an employee of Lightworks/Editshare, or at the originator of this topic.

I pop up on forums when people as about Lightworks and where it looks to me like there is a need for information. So it was not Lightworks asking why there isn't a Lightworks topic. To be honest, I wouldn't expect one to be here - this forum has a different emphasis and that is on production as opposed to post production. Of course, there is always some overlap.

Lighworks has it's own forum, run by Editshare, that has over 300,000 registered users, and for support issues or questions about Lightworks functionality, that's a good place to go. By the way, we do go to conventions. NAB, for example.
 
I saw you guys at NAB. I wanted to stop by and chat but the line was too long - popular booth.
 
David Shapton said:
Some people don't fly because they think it is too dangerous. Some people won't leave the house because they think it is too dangerous. Some people stay in the house and get hit by a falling airliner or meteorite or submerged under the fallout from a volcano.

So if you don't want any risk, don't do anything. If you want to do something, then there's a risk. But most risks are so low that we go ahead with the activity anyway because the benefits far outweigh the risks.
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I'm willing to take risks, which is why i have downloaded lightworks and am giving it a try, using it to edit some little short documentaries, though for the time being, all my paid work will be cut on one of the established NLE's. i like what you're doing, and some of the software features are really cool but obviously in this industry staying future proof is very important, which is why i asked the initial question.
 
Joshbalti said:
I'm willing to take risks, which is why i have downloaded lightworks and am giving it a try, using it to edit some little short documentaries, though for the time being, all my paid work will be cut on one of the established NLE's. i like what you're doing, and some of the software features are really cool but obviously in this industry staying future proof is very important, which is why i asked the initial question.
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Thanks for trying it!

Well, Lightworks has the best home in all of its twenty or so years of existance.

In this business there are no guarantees but the fact that employees of other NLE manufacturers are leaving to join us might give you some confidence. We are in this for the long term.

But, as I said earlier, we support industry standard codecs and industry standard interchange formats. So you'll never be stuck in the middle of a project, whatever happens.
 
Question: Will the free version allow users to export projects to other formats (e.g. AAF) even if those projects were created using the paid version AND they contain footage using codecs that are not supported in the free version?

This would be important for the post-apocalyptic scenario where Lightworks stopped developing the product or we stopped our subscription for whatever reason.

PS, Not critiquing, but just trying to save you some time: As the vendor/developer, you can say you're "in it for the long haul" all you want, but this will mostly fall on deaf ears (or actually create more resistance to your product) because users have too many examples of companies not holding to their promises. Take Apple for instance-- from the very beginning, they were aiming for pros and shooting for the stars. They had a lot of "industry support" and people left other companies to work for them (Combustion creators built Motion). They even bought Shake, a very pro-centric application if there ever was one. Fast forward a mere decade give or take from FCP's inception (not what I would consider "long term") and we have a very consumer-centric version of FCP, Shake has been discontinued, and roadmap for professionals in sight.

Basically, companies change directions all the time. Users know this, and while you as the developer may see a clear direction ahead, as you said, "in this business there are no guarantees", and Lightworks' direction may need to change in the future in a way that will leave some/all users by the wayside.
 
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Jive said:
Question: Will the free version allow users to export projects to other formats (e.g. AAF) even if those projects were created using the paid version AND they contain footage using codecs that are not supported in the free version?

This would be important for the post-apocalyptic scenario where Lightworks stopped developing the product or we stopped our subscription for whatever reason.

PS, Not critiquing, but just trying to save you some time: As the vendor/developer, you can say you're "in it for the long haul" all you want, but this will mostly fall on deaf ears (or actually create more resistance to your product) because users have too many examples of companies not holding to their promises. Take Apple for instance-- from the very beginning, they were aiming for pros and shooting for the stars. They had a lot of "industry support" and people left other companies to work for them (Combustion creators built Motion). They even bought Shake, a very pro-centric application if there ever was one. Fast forward a mere decade give or take from FCP's inception (not what I would consider "long term") and we have a very consumer-centric version of FCP, Shake has been discontinued, and roadmap for professionals in sight.

Basically, companies change directions all the time. Users know this, and while you as the developer may see a clear direction ahead, as you said, "in this business there are no guarantees", and Lightworks' direction may need to change in the future in a way that will leave some/all users by the wayside.
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You make some good points but the sense in which "we're in it for the long haul" is that we don't see what we are doing with Lightworks (ie giving it away free and charging a small annual fee for the Pro version) as a marketing gimmick: it is core to our business plan.

What's also the case is that while Lightworks is important to Editshare, the company makes its money from other products as well.

You can always argue that nothing will last for ever, and there's no way to counter that, except to say that Lightworks is now in a safe place where it is being nurtured and developed, and will continue to be, as long as we are in existance.

To answer your first question about what happens if you stop paying your subscription: Lightworks Pro reverts to Lightworks Free. You will not be able to work with material that is in a licenced format. But I can't envisage a situation where you're in the middle of an important - paying - project, where you wouldn't pay $60 if your subscription ran out. If you mistakenly omit to pay the subscription, paying it at any time will restore full Pro status to your software.
 
j said:
That's where the open source is appealing...
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We have a four stage plan to reach Open Source. We are currently at stage two, which is the release of the Windows version. It's not a simple process. You have to take out all the technical and legal obstacles and then ensure that you choose the right type of Open Source license. We are some way off doing this yet, and, to be honest, the biggest demand has been from users who want an installable version, and who are not developers. So that's our priority at the moment. Open Source will come later. Around 300,000 people have downloaded Lightworks from us in total. That's before we release the Linux and Mac versions!
 
David Shapton said:
To answer your first question about what happens if you stop paying your subscription: Lightworks Pro reverts to Lightworks Free. You will not be able to work with material that is in a licenced format. But I can't envisage a situation where you're in the middle of an important - paying - project, where you wouldn't pay $60 if your subscription ran out. If you mistakenly omit to pay the subscription, paying it at any time will restore full Pro status to your software.
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Again, the question was in regards to if a user only had access to the free version for whatever reason (Lightworks no longer developed, internet not accessible to renew subscription, legacy project received from another user, etc.). It's understandable that the user would not be able to continue editing footage that requires a license in the free version, but can the user at least open and export the project to another format (e.g. AAF)?

To be clear, I'm looking for a simple "Yes, the user can use the free version of Lightworks to export a project to AAF regardless of the footage contained therein" or "No, the user would need to buy a license to export their project if it contains at least one file that uses licensed codecs"
 
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