F5: Why is the F5 more expensive than the FS7?

NorBro

NorBro

Major Contributor
Just wondering in general.

It seems like the newer Sony cameras offer so much more (FS7, FS5, even the A7SII), yet the older F#s and F##s (besides the F3 price drop) cost so much more.
 
Thank you! What do you guys think about the F3? Why did only that model out-of-the-bunch get such a significant price drop?
 
NorBro said:
Thank you! What do you guys think about the F3? Why did only that model out-of-the-bunch get such a significant price drop?
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Probably because it is so completely 1080p only. That seems to be a curse these days.

Other than that though it seems to be one hell of a 1080p camera.
 
What do you think the FS7, FS5 and A7SII offer over the F5 NorBro? The FS7 certainly matches many aspects of it for compressed recording, but as Noah said, doesn't offer the same sort of timecode/genlock functionality, the simplicity and security of dockable raw, or the solidity and functionality of the FZ-mount. The only functional advantages I can see for the FS7 are the ability to use speedboosters, and one additional internal ND filter. Certainly the price is fantastic, and the feature set is terrific - but it simply can't do certain things that the F5 is built to do. Those things come at a price.

The A7S is a totally different beast, so doesn't really compare at all. And the FS5 doesn't come close to matching the F5 (though when it's raw output is enabled, it could become a very interesting option for gimbal work that the F5 is too bulky for).

Personally, I think the F5 sits very much alone in the middle of the market at the moment. I contemplated selling mine a while back, but there were no comparable side-ways options to take. You could pay more money and step up to Dragon or Arri, or pay less and step down to the FS7 or the Canon. The only option comparable in price is the Scarlet Dragon, but that's a very different camera (with some lovely features, and a great sensor, but nowhere near as versatile as the F5).

The F3 is a steal at current prices. Form-factor is a bit shoddy (though I think you can still get the element technica body armour, which massively improves it), but that sensor is a little gem. Very sharp, enough dynamic range to keep up with all of the latest cameras, up to 60fps output with the right recorder. Rolling shutter and moire/alaising are VASTLY superior to other cheap options like the Blackmagic Cameras, and it beats out the Canon offerings with 10-bit recording, wider dynamic range and 60fps at 1080p.
 
Thank you for the info! I believe the biggest luxury (for me at least) is the internal recording of 4K/UHD/HFR with the newer cameras. (I believe one of the Sony's was hacked to do it internally, but I don't recall the details.)

B&H lists the F3 60p only at 720p. The tech specs aren't always updated...is it really 1080/60p?
 
NorBro said:
Thank you for the info! I believe the biggest luxury (for me at least) is the internal recording of 4K/UHD/HFR with the newer cameras. (I believe one of the Sony's was hacked to do it internally, but I don't recall the details.)

B&H lists the F3 60p only at 720p. The tech specs aren't always updated...is it really 1080/60p?
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Ah, fair point - I forgot that I paid for the 4k upgrade. Personally I consider $1k for 4k internal recording a steal given that I bought the camera as a 2k only camera (and knew I'd have to add the R5 recorder for 4k and raw - which I've also done, and has been an excellent investment).

You can output 60p through the F3's SDI A and B ports. It's 720p60 internally - but you don't want to be recording internally anyway, so don't worry about it. You'd just want one of the latest monitor/recorders so that you can record the 1080p60 output in 10-bit.
 
I have a Blackmagic Video Assist that I use to record 1080/60p via one SDI/DIN cable with certain cameras.

Would I need to use both SDI ports with the F3 to get 1080/60p?
 
NorBro said:
Thank you! What do you guys think about the F3? Why did only that model out-of-the-bunch get such a significant price drop?
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The F3 has been around for a few years and is 'only' HD in a 4k world. It also looks a little like an oversized Handycam with that ridiculous EVF stuck not the back...

That said it still is a superb camera and the IQ is still competitive with many cameras out there, as long as you can live with HD.


https://vimeo.com/30859426

No light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxRy5fvlhE


Just be aware that to get the most out of it you need an external recorder and the sLOG upgrade. The highest output quality is uncompressed 10bit 444 RGB HD in sLOG to an external recorder like the Odyssey 7+, Gemini 444 etc.. Depending on what recorder you have you can also capture uncompressed 10bit sLOG 422, Prores444, 422, 422LT and DNxHD.

So, that's the catch. You need to add up the cost of the camera and recorder to see if it still is competitive with other offerings.
If you can find a clean used one for a good price you're getting one of the best HD cameras ever made. Professional I/O, s35 sensor, 13.5 stops, very clean high asa, great reliability and flexibility. Think if it like this. In many ways the F3 blows away the Viper camera that was used to shoot films like Zodiac and Benjamin Buttons....

I've had mine for a few years now and still really enjoy it.
 
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Right now, I'm in my "I am sick of every new camera that's out" stage, haha, and looking at the old Sony's for a different look. I feel like some cameras that were made years ago are more cinematic and produce really beautiful images. What I really want is a F35.

For the F3, the sLog is standard with the cameras now.
 
NorBro said:
I have a Blackmagic Video Assist that I use to record 1080/60p via one SDI/DIN cable with certain cameras.

Would I need to use both SDI ports with the F3 to get 1080/60p?
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Don't quote me on this, but I believe you need both SDI ports if you don't have the RGB444 upgrade, and if you do have it, you can set the SDI A port to 3G-SDI and can then output 1080p60 over a single cable.

If you end up with a non-RGB F3, you could add a converter box to take the two SDIs and convert their signal into a single 3G-SDI output (if you only have a single input on your recorder).
 
NorBro said:
For the F3, the sLog is standard with the cameras now.
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Is the free sLOG the exact same as the paid upgrade was? I'm under the impression that it does not include full 444 output over the dual SDI or there was some other catch.... It's getting hard to keep track of with all the price reductions, free versions etc.

thx
 
The paid update was more than just slog I believe. Most of the F3a I've seen for sale include the paid upgraded version ado I wouldn't sweat it too much. I've considered picking one several times because the price odds now so low. It's basically a poor mans Alexa in my opinion.
 
Grug said:
You can output 60p through the F3's SDI A and B ports. It's 720p60 internally - but you don't want to be recording internally anyway, so don't worry about it. You'd just want one of the latest monitor/recorders so that you can record the 1080p60 output in 10-bit.
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That's true, but one of the charms of this little camera is that it's wonderfully efficient 35/mbs native recording actually looks "more than good enough" for many projects that go straight to youtube or vimeo. In many ways, it has a better "out of the box" look than the F5, a camera I find needs a little more care to get a nice, neutral image.

I still use my F3 as a B cam and it's a great companion for it's bigger F5 brother...
 
F5 has better build quality. FS7 is built in China, and designed to cut costs for Sony to be at that price point. The FZ mount system on the F5 is stronger than the FS7's E mount system.
 
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