F3: Why is everyone selling off their Sony F3?

reem12 said:
In my humble opinion the f3 produces far better images and color than most cameras in its price range. I think I even like the images better than the 1dc in which i'm fond of. For some reason it seems sony got the color science perfect on this cam and missed it on its other sub 10k cams. Its a good size, not to big, not to small, and the stock images has such an organic look to them. very pleasing to the eye.
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I agree with you, that color science is completely subjective. For myself, I thought the color science on the F3 is fairly clinical / sterile looking.

Since many are comparing the F3 to the FS7, for my own tastes, on the FS7 I'm able to get the best looks I've ever had, just out of the box - great skin tones, very organic looking with zero effort with the new color science. Kind of like what I got from my Canon's - no effort, nice out-of-camea looks that don't require grading. I'm actually happier with what I'm getting out of the box on the FS7 than even my Canons.

I did this camera test and did NOT change any colors, and I love it. Of course on a real job and with any camera (Sony, RED, Alexa, Canon), I would grade the colors (especially skin tones) a bit as they always need some shifting; but this is up there in terms of not needing much color grading.

https://vimeo.com/121643342


As stated before, everyone is different and I'm only stating what is pleasing to my eye as you might have a completely different idea of what looks good. Whatever the case, the F3 image has a different vibe than the newer Sonys.
 
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Just remembered: Another reason I didn't go for the F3 back then and opted for Red was that the camera didn't came with SLog enabled and demanded a ridiculous paid firmware update for it. It also enabled 10 bit 4:4:4 if I'm not mistaken (or was it 4:2:2) through HD SDI. With both the C300 and the Scarlet you got 4:2:2 out of the box ( albeit 8 bit on the C300) . But the truth is I still loved the image quality of the SLog enabled F3. It was in the middle of all this dilema that I said "the hell with it, I've had enough of these compromises" and went for the Red Epic. Problem solved. Bank account empty .

To the original poster: make sure your F3 has Slog firmware installed/enabled!
 
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I have yet to shoot for BBC, Discovery or some other client that demands "special codec" and such... Most of the broadcasters here in Canada that I worked for did not "graduate" switching to HD and figuring out their own digital work flow let alone asking for 2k, 4K, etc... Most of my clients are still satisfied with HD, and when I mention 4K and increased amount of data and need for bigger storage for particular project, they pass...
Now, I got my F3 among the first here in Toronto when it came put. I don't rent it out. I am the only shooter with it. Yes, original ergonomics sucked but I did 3ality armor upgrade (for a great discounted price once they were selling off their inventory), and I just got Zacuto Gratical HD evf to replace my "aged" SmallHD DP4... Now, together with Solid Camera evf cradle/holder, camera is "anatomically" correct (after 5 years), and pleasure to shoot with off shoulder, lap, ground or tripod...
I use to have Pix240 as external recorder, but due to its size and large power usage, I replaced it with "grandpa" Nanoflash to have 50mbs recording. That is all my clients ask/ want... So, no need for upgrade. F3 stays for good... You can see how camera looks now, over at my Instagram feed.
 
I've bought an F3 modified by Reality with Element Technica cage and base plate and side handle for just 2000 euros. Paid another 700 euros for a Gemini Recorder with 2 SSD and another 700 euros for the RGB 444 10 bits update. Thats; 3400 euros. From my calculation and comparison there is nothing close to quality and price of this combo. Price for all these brand new : around 25.000 dollars.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4c/e3/2a/4ce32aab68be79b24184a1107e313c0c.jpg

No raw ? No Slo mo ? For 3400 euros i dont mind. Image quality is impressive. So many high end accesories on the second hand market available for such low money. This is the deal of the moment.
 
image.jpgThe F3 is going to stay a long while with me as well! And now I have to look into a GraticalHD - thanks Steven! F3 is such a good deal now - I might get a second one too.
Here's a couple screenshots from today's shoot at the marina by my place.
More on Instagram : paulchristophr
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very nice screen shots paul. was this 10 bit 422. latitude looks amazing and images have crazy detail.
 
I was looking at the FS7, but I'm thinking that I'll stick with my F3 unless a bundle of cash drops out of the sky and in to my lap. All I need is HD and although RAW tempts me, uncompressed 444 is nothing to sneeze at either. Here is one way to look at it. A movie like 'Zodiac' was shot on the Viper, which the F3 blows away and I felt that movie looked pretty darn good.

I'll probably add the Convergent Design 7Q+ while they are offering the two SSD cards for free. Rental costs on a recorder add up real quickly and the great thing about the Odyssey is that it will work with a number of cameras for years to come. And you get an OLED monitor for 'free'.
 
Thanks reem12,

Images were shot from the less superior Sony CineAlta F3 (Element Armor) with the internal s-log 8 bit 4.2.0 35mbs 'crap' codec : )
I'd get even better images with my Hyperdeck in 10bit but I wanted a simple light setup for handheld exploring.
I threw the camera in a backpack and was shooting within minutes of arriving at the marina.
Aperture set to +25 to add a bit more fine detail.
Matrix is on : Sony F35 709 like with additional tweaks to the matrix to create the 'look' I wanted.
Color graded in FCPX with simple contrast adjustments, no color correction - and I believe I used a Kodak Ultramax 400 LUT film emulsion in finishing.
I've been trying to attain the coveted Sony F35 film look from my F3 - and I think I'm getting closer anyways.
I know it's not possible to get it all the way there - but I am quite happy with these results.
Pentax Macro 50mm was used for all shots.
cheers!
 
Pretty close Paul with the F35 look. Nicely done.

I'm still sporting an F3 as well for most of the reasons set out above. When the F5/F55 came out, it was a non starter due to the lack of external audio pots. I decided to wait out a generation and fix up the F3 to make it ideal for my needs. So I put an HDVF-20a ENG viewfinder on it using the ProVFM kit from AbelCine. I got the armour kit from from ET and the shouldermount baseplate on closeout as well. I ended up NOT putting the amourkit on as I didn't want to lose the headphone jack and I would have had to do additional machining to get the ProVFM to mount. The ET baseplate was the real killer deal on their F3 closeout sale.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is the F3 has decent exposure controls and very few surprises happen when shooting with firmware that is mature.

I have an a7S as a second cam and more importantly for when I need to move lightly. It has decent audio controls as well with their K1M or K2M module, UHD (ersatz 4K) out and Cinegammas that match the F3.
 
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Hey paul,

How do you feel the f3 handles in motion cadence in comparison to the f35. I think hands down from what I've seen over the internet that the f35 has by far the most filmic motion out of any digital cinema camera. Although my f3 exhibits a nice motion as well its just when I see it online it doesn't look like the f35. Would this have anything to do with the global shutter. If there is no movement I would say the f3 could cut between the f35 with no problems. If you or someone else could please tell my if they notice the same thing?
 
reem12 said:
Hey paul,

How do you feel the f3 handles in motion cadence in comparison to the f35. I think hands down from what I've seen over the internet that the f35 has by far the most filmic motion out of any digital cinema camera. Although my f3 exhibits a nice motion as well its just when I see it online it doesn't look like the f35. Would this have anything to do with the global shutter. If there is no movement I would say the f3 could cut between the f35 with no problems. If you or someone else could please tell my if they notice the same thing?
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The F35 will always have a better feeling motion due to global shutter and zero jello. I think with the F3 handles motion quite well too - but there is a lot more processing happening inside the F35 to help give it it's filmic motion feel. One could adjust shutter angle to allow for slightly more blur in the F3 image to help smooth things along.
 
leonel escobar said:
I was thinking about purchasing an F3 but the fact that there are so many up for sale now concerns me.
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It should concern you. The FS7 is blowing that camera out of the water. The dirty little secret about the F3 is it's only 35mbs. It's kind of an amped up EX3. Make no mistake, it make nice pictures and if you are on the fence and want to enter the shallow depth of focus arena cheaply, this may not be an unwise choice. But for the money, it's really hard to beat the FS7, especially since it's expandable so you can really start shooting nice pictures for $8600. The extra $600 is for Sony's 18/105mm zoom, which again for the money, is a pretty damn nice lens.
 
allenfacemire said:
It should concern you. The FS7 is blowing that camera out of the water. The dirty little secret about the F3 is it's only 35mbs. It's kind of an amped up EX3.
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True, but who actually shoots the internal codec on the F3? At the very least you can get a Ninja for about $500 and shoot Prores.

I feel that the F3 is something of a tough sell when new at $14,000, although it is a full blown professional HD camera with all the IO you will ever need and FZ-mount. But clean used exampels are out there from well under $5000 and with even a baisc recorder it's pretty hard to beat in terms of IQ and functionality.
 
Yes you get an an original Samurai (SDI) for less than $500 these days. I have one for sale for $450. Much better IMHO than dealing with HDMI on a Ninja. In reality the 35mb internal codec is far better looking and robust than it sounds and anything other than very large color corrections are quite doable. For Slog or green screen I would definitely go with an external recorder of course, but for your average doc or industrial - internal is fine. No question the FS7 is better , but for a bargain camera the F3 is top of the heap no question.
 
It should be considered that Slog1 is to my eye pretty hard to deal with - I never got full saturation down nicely just the snot/fog seen above (which can work well for some projects)

I sort of bought mine as an upgrade to the FS100 mainly to get ND, kept simple like that it can be good - once you start building it up (would you run a recorder not off a vlock? - I wouldnt) the thing becomes a behemoth - sort of like the F35 which is not practical without crew.

For many jobs a C100 will just be more practical and for heavy data the BMC4k is a much tidier package (800mbs in a 2kg box!).. or for more money the FS7 comes to play.

So it only fits in a small window!
 
Really useful test Tomas. Alexa looked rich and full. F3 was close in feel to the Alexa when graded, quite filmic, rich colours and complimentary to the womens' skin. There was a bit more visible detail in the F55 and colours did not seem as full or rich as the F3. I wonder if the detail and/or crispening/sharpening was up on it as it looked way more clinical than the others.
 
Here's a crappy looking XDCAM EX 420 8-bit short doc I did three years ago in Cine 1 Cinegamma on the F3. Trust me, Im a firm believer in 10-bit XAVC, Pro Res etc. but quite often the numbers just dont really matter, especially for a doc.

If spending $9000+ is a hard stretch for someone then buying a good used F3 plus a Samurai, Ninja, Ninja Star for under $4K is a no brainer.



*Actually, I just now watched this for the first time in a long time and the color grade is really not what I would consider "up to snuff". Not the camera's fault.
 
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