Why F3 over Red One ?

I really don't understand how you guys look at minor re- framing adjustment as a no-no.....it's done all the time in big features! You just don't notice it or realize it. I am NOT talking about turning a wide into a close up by all means! Actually I would cringe at the fact that you would NOT take advantage of such an option to improve your composition and story telling. And do you know how many "re-lights" occurs in high end movies in post through color correction, masking and secondaries? Why doesn't anyone tell those "lazy people" light it properly the first time.... :grin:
But really cost wise the F3 and Red are not in the same league anyway....so I am not sure why they are being compared. The RED is more expensive and a camera like the F3 is a nice addition to the 13-18K range. I have no brand loyalty what so ever...I have jumped ship several times. I just use what works best for a project. My last shoot was with an Alexa actually...:thumbsup:
 
I think the people that are becoming a bit more aggressive here are missing the point of the original post.

Its not a battle of whether a Red camera is good or not. Obviously it is.

The question was, since a Red One is good and the Epic will presumably be good when we can get our hands on it, why would someone buy an F3?

Please don't take any comments of what's good about an F3 to mean that people are claiming an F3 is better than a Red.

People will compare the advantages and disadvantages of each. Red owners may cringe but the F3 does have some advantages for many users. The Red cameras also have some obvious advantages.

Its not a battle, just a tool.
 
Duke M. said:
The question was, since a Red One is good and the Epic will presumably be good when we can get our hands on it, why would someone buy an F3?
Click to expand...

To me that one seems obvious. It's a third the price, so if it's even a third as good (I haven't used one yet, but sounds like people are saying it's more than a third as good) it's clearly a very smart buy.

To me the interesting question is, if you're someone like Timur who already has both, what makes you choose one or the other in a given situation. That's more along the lines of what these threads should explore. That would actually be educational/useful.
 
Lee Saxon said:
To me that one seems obvious. It's a third the price, so if it's even a third as good (I haven't used one yet, but sounds like people are saying it's more than a third as good) it's clearly a very smart buy.

To me the interesting question is, if you're someone like Timur who already has both, what makes you choose one or the other in a given situation. That's more along the lines of what these threads should explore. That would actually be educational/useful.
Click to expand...

I posted exactly that scenario on the first page.
 
R1MX is a bit more than 2x the price of an F3. F3 comes standard for $13.3k with an LCD and two media slots, RED is a bit over $2700 in its lowest-priced configuration with an 5.6" lcd and CF module. Add another $1k for the ability to use SSD media that might be able to compete with the recording time of SxS.

Anyone know if the F3 comes with any media, charger, or batteries? It doesnt look like it, which is surprising considering I remember my EX1 came with a battery, a charger, and 2 SxS cards.
 
You can buy (4) 32GB SD cards for roughly $140 + the $50 Hoodman sXs adapter. 128GB of media for your F3 for roughly $190. The Red MX, when recording to SSD, will cost $1500 for the SSD module, $250 for the offloading station and $1800 for the 128GB SSD card.
 
Well look, as a DP, your job is to make responsible choices. If i were asked to shoot a feature tommorow for $3,000,000 , i'd shoot F3 w/ KIpro, $5,000,000 feature i would use a R1MX in a heart beat. If i had a $10,000,000 feature, i'd shoot it on Alexa or 35mm.

(mind these are cameras and abilities available now). There are these choices! 4 ROCK SOLID image capture methods!
 
You have to consider the budget of the project, like always. Far too many arguments have to do with "this camera over that camera" when really the question should ALWAYS be "this camera over that camera for X USES at X COST." I shot my first feature for about $50,000 on the XHA1, Letus Extreme, and Nikon Primes. My second I hope to shoot in 2012, likely on the XF300, SGBlade, and Nikon Primes. The budget for that one between $200,000-$250,000, so the F3 was an option, but I decided to place more of the budget in the hands of good people, a better grip / lighting truck, a top notch sound man, etc. Unless I have an extra amount in the budget, the F3 is still possible but until then, I'll be picking a system that can satisfy my needs/wants and leave enough room in the budget to give me a quality in front of and behind the camera.
 
Hmmm...

Interesting. I'd have to read the script of the feature... I'd shoot any feature that could afford me with my red package on Red.

If they couldn't afford my Red, I'd say - let's see maybe we can rent an F3? I dunno... a lot of it depends on script and again, - even for fast editorial turn around I'd still choose a Red if they could afford to have it transcoded with a Red Rocket in time...

I feel like the redrocket solves a lot of the post issues, and you can bake your own look into the footage as a sort of Pre-DI?

That being said - I look forward to a chance to use the F3 on a paying project.
 
that hdr clip is awesome. The Red Epic is going to be awesome. We all know that. But for today - for right now - for the everyman and everywoman - the F3 is perhaps the best value to own if you are working on small and medium-level productions for documentary, commercial, and industrial. For people who deal with editors who don't really grade - for people who want a light weight camera and less crew on set - to work faster and smaller.

Once the Red Epic comes out in quantities that everyone can just go to the store and order it, and the Red Epic-M, and hopefully the nessicary components as well just as a viewfinder and memory modules - then it's going to be a different game.

But until then sorry Red owners - right now at this moment in time you're losing. It's a sad feeling to be losing especially for gear heads.

But maybe this is an important moment in your life - where you realize you shouldn't just be a supporter of one camera - where you should use different cameras like people who shoot on film use different film stocks. Where one film you'll shoot on Fuji and another on Kodak. Your reputation is not on the line.

I love this thread! So passionate.
 
For Doc, Web, Music Videos, Events and certain TV commercials I'd go with the F3.

For Narrative and bigger budget TV stuff I'd go with the Red MX.

If I had to chose one in which to invest (for me) major $$$ in a system, (as a prod. company, not as a dp), I personally rather invest in Red, but not Red one, only in the Epic.
 
Isn't that sort of like the newbies that pour all their money into the best camera they can buy, and have almost nothing left for the audio, lighting, costumes, etc.

The smaller the budget for gear the more you can spend on things in front of the lens.

The Epic clip is spectacular. So is the Genisis 4.4.4 recorder for $6k from convergent design. OMG
 
Well, I look at it like this, if you're doing smaller productions the more you spend in gear the larger your corporate overhead is. If you only do 10k jobs and buy a 50k camera..... such a bad idea. Also, if you are a sole shooter/editor type company the more time everything takes the less money you make. You really have to be realistic and shoot within your means.
 
the F3 has almost no aliasig in practical use. It only shows up when you point it at a Zone chart. ( in this case a trumpet chart, but same thing basically) Zone charts are designed to produce aliasing, its not a question of "IF" a camera will alias, its "When". The F3 aliases at extraordinarily high frequencies, the kind if image frequency that could be akin to a black an white pin stripe jacket, where the black and white lines are equal width, but only a mm wide. then maybe, at a medium wide it would alias, but that RARE instance is highly improbably, maybe a crazy costume in a Lady GaGa video... But Lady Gaga videos are likely to be shot on Epic, or 35mm.

I have yet to see ANY aliasing in the real world. The OLPF is probably not strong enough. But increasing its strength reduces the cameras resolution. I like it just as it is.
 
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