GH2 Why does Panasonic not move up to APS-C sensor for the GH3? Why Micro 4/3rds?

S

skital

Well-known member
It seems they could get a lot more sales if they moved upto APC-S sensor. The low light could be improved even more and more options for fast wide angle lenses. It's so hard to find really fast wide lenses because of the huge cropping. I hate that is crops so much. That's one of the only things keeping me from trading my T2i for one....oh and the lack of picture controls. I wish the Gh3 would be at least APS-C sized and have options for picture profiles.

Why is Panasonic so set on Micro 4/3rds?
 
skital said:
It seems they could get a lot more sales if they moved upto APC-S sensor.
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Says who? Then the camera would be bigger and heavier like a Canon. I still don't understand why the T3i is so ginormous. That is the main reason I sold mine. Add to that the larger heavier lenses and it was a pain to carry everywhere.
skital said:
The low light could be improved even more and more options for fast wide angle lenses.
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Except the low light for video is already better than just about anything out there. Why add size and weight for no reason?
skital said:
It's so hard to find really fast wide lenses because of the huge cropping.
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I don't think you understand the cropping. The micro four thirds sensor is less than 18% shorter than a Canon APS sensor. The 2 are pretty close.

I would rather have the smaller size, better low light for video, and the ability to adapt just about any lens rather than a slightly larger sensor.
 
m43user said:
Says who? Then the camera would be bigger and heavier like a Canon. I still don't understand why the T3i is so ginormous. That is the main reason I sold mine. Add to that the larger heavier lenses and it was a pain to carry everywhere.
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Personally, I prefer a bit heavier. The Gh1 I tried out was so light and felt a bit like a toy. I use a stabilizer system which adds more weight than you can tell between a T3i and Gh2. So, the weight difference is meaningless to me, personally, but either way I don't like my camera to be too light, but the weight really is insignificant to me and will be at the bottom of my list of things to consider.

Except the low light for video is already better than just about anything out there. Why add size and weight for no reason?
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See, I always read the GH2 (perhaps excluding it using an expensive F0.95 lens) not as sensitive as 5D Mark II, 7D, 60D or T2i.

I don't think you understand the cropping. The micro four thirds sensor is less than 18% shorter than a Canon APS sensor. The 2 are pretty close.
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Gh2 is 1.9x crop right? So, a 50mm normal view lens on a 5D Mark II comes out to about 95mm telephoto on the GH2. Do I not get the gist of it?

However, I thought it was 1.6x for the Canon APS-C vs 1.9x for Micro 4/3rds...Am I coming up with 30% difference for a wrong reason? Is there some difference with sensor aspect ratio or something? Either way...if 18% shorter that's not as bad as 30% for sure, but 1.6x crop is already bordering on too much crop for very fast wide shots as it is. 18% shorter just makes it even worse for for wide 18% is not that small, IMO. I'd like to be able to get wide fast shallower depth of field shots indoors where there is not an abundance of space.

I would rather have the smaller size, better low light for video, and the ability to adapt just about any lens rather than a slightly larger sensor.
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I like the ability to adapt a lot of lenses, but dislike the lack of picture profile possibilities for flatter profiles and the difficulty of going both wide and fast. As for better low light. Is that only true when you throw an expensive F0.95 lens on the Gh2 or even if using F1.8 vs F1.8 on both. How close is the sensitivity in these circumstances vs. the 5D mark II or the APS-C Canons?
 
Well, understand that the whole point of making the m43 standard, was to make the cameras smaller and lighter. Making the sensor bigger would mean it needs bigger lenses and ... you're right back where you started. If you want a bigger, heavier camera with an APS-C sensor, there are many many of those on the market -- why would you want to turn the GH2/GH3 into the same thing everyone else is already selling?
 
I don't think there would be this argument if there were more WA lenses available for the M4/3. It is the only downside. Anything from 30mm up is a veritable goldmine. One of the greatest things about these cameras is choice of lenses...unless you want to go nice and wide.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, understand that the whole point of making the m43 standard, was to make the cameras smaller and lighter. Making the sensor bigger would mean it needs bigger lenses and ... you're right back where you started. If you want a bigger, heavier camera with an APS-C sensor, there are many many of those on the market -- why would you want to turn the GH2/GH3 into the same thing everyone else is already selling?
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I really don't mind heavier. Infact, I much prefer it for any handheld shooting...i feel I can get more stable footage. Couldn't they further improve the low light sensitivity by going with a larger APS-C sensor and the ability to go wider and faster would be a bonus...plus hopefully still having less moire and aliasing than Canon's? Going wide at F1.8 or faster on the Panny just seems very difficult. I think it's already not the easiest thing to do on the APS-C, but more doable.

I'm considering selling my T2i for a GH2, but am worried about how hard it will be to go wide with interior shots using a Gh2 without having to resort to a slower lens. Not sure if I'll be happy with the exchange or deeper DOF. I do like having more detail and less compression though.
 
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IMO, Panasonic going to the APwhatever size sensor would be just plain stupid. Cropped is cropped, be it 1.5, 1.63 or 2.0. The only thing IMO that would make sense if Panny was to bring out a new sensor, would be to go Full Frame to compete with the big boys.
 
I wish someone (besides ikonoskop) would look into a 2.5k super 16 sensor, at intra 10 bit.

Just sayin'
 
I don't agree with you at all on the sensor size, the GF1 wouldn't have been the success it was it was as big as a APS-C camera. They filled a nice niche, it obvious the big 2 there is a market there, thus prompting the release of the Nikon 1

Anyway as technology progresses, the advantages of low noise and better high ISO shooting will be moot, sure there maybe always been a difference between a smaller and larger sensor, for the large majority of people they won't be able to tell the difference. We've already reached that point in the megapixel race IMO. Depth of field will be completely achieveable independent of sensor size and maybe even optics.

The GH3 will definitely not have a APS-C sized sensor, that as stupid as asking that the 5DMk3 have a medium format sized sensor

Weight is far easier to add than remove. What wide angle lens do you use on your T2i at the moment?

Totally agree with the picture profiles, would love them myself
 
It will never happen but as long as we are dreaming I'd like to see the Gh3 developed around a new 12mp sensor. Bigger pixels would mean better low light and dynamic range. It could scale to HD using the same method as the c300, the 1:1 sensor crop would yield 2/3 rather than 1/2" for better 16mm compatability. It would be set to enter the 4k arena if they implemented the right codec to go with it.

If you're going to ask why Not's, then Why didn't Nikon just join micro 4/3 for its 1 rather than just make interchangeable lenses for a point and shoot sensor. Why doesn't Sigma make m4/3 lenses yet, they still make 4/3 even though there is only maybe one Olympus pro body left in production.

If panasonic was really smart they would just buy out olympus, but keep the brand, as it has more cache among photogs, pro and consumer alike. Lumix bodies would be re-branded as Olympus with the GH3 as the Flag-ship. Panasonic Engineers would concentrate on camera and sensors, Olympus would make lenses, win/win.
 
ChipThome said:
IMO, Panasonic going to the APwhatever size sensor would be just plain stupid. Cropped is cropped, be it 1.5, 1.63 or 2.0. The only thing IMO that would make sense if Panny was to bring out a new sensor, would be to go Full Frame to compete with the big boys.
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I wouldn't complain about a full frame version. I'd prefer it, but to say cropped is cropped like they are the same doesn't make any sense to me. It's already difficult enough getting fast and wide at the same time with APS-C, more crop only makes it more difficult. I'd just like it to be easier. I like some of what Panny has going for the Gh2 or I wouldn't even think about it, but I don't like what I'd have to give up. If they want to do full frame though I'm on it, but I'd JUMP on one if it were ASP-C as well.
 
dop16mm said:
It will never happen but as long as we are dreaming I'd like to see the Gh3 developed around a new 12mp sensor. Bigger pixels would mean better low light and dynamic range.
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Personally, I'd love to see it use a about a 2.07 MP sensor considering that would further improve low light and dynamic range if it only used a native 1920x1080p sensor like the CMOS Pro in the Canon HF G10. I know that won't happen though. lol.
 
I am a fan of wides. I'll tell you straight up that you need an 11-16/2.8 Tokina or similar to get what you're looking for.

It isn't easy going super wide with the GH2, but it can be done if you choose wisely. The 20/1.7 is a fair enough lens for interior work, still isn't wide enough for my tastes. The dream lens for the GH2/3 would be Zeiss' Ultra Prime 8mm lens. It's incredibly fast, incredibly sharp, and distortion control is excellent.

Other than that, Canon to GH? Depends. I like 5D for sensor size but the IQ really can't touch GH2 hack.
 
Dazza said:
What wide angle lens do you use on your T2i at the moment?
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At the moment just the kit lens, but was going to get the Sigma 20mm F1.8 until I decided to wait for the Samyang 24mm F1.4. Nothing super wide. A a wide Tokina zoom, but I was wanting F1.8 or faster wide lenses.
 
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skital said:
It seems they could get a lot more sales if they moved upto APC-S sensor. The low light could be improved even more and more options for fast wide angle lenses. It's so hard to find really fast wide lenses because of the huge cropping. I hate that is crops so much. That's one of the only things keeping me from trading my T2i for one....oh and the lack of picture controls. I wish the Gh3 would be at least APS-C sized and have options for picture profiles.

Why is Panasonic so set on Micro 4/3rds?
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The whole point of MFT is it's not APS-C.

No fast wide lenses? Almost any fast wide lens out there can be adapted. And there are pretty good native MFT lenses like Olympus 14-35mm f/2.0 Zuiko and new Panny X lens 12-35mm, which should be plenty fast and wide for most applications.
 
VMT said:
The whole point of MFT is it's not APS-C.

No fast wide lenses? Almost any fast wide lens out there can be adapted. And there are pretty good native MFT lenses like Olympus 14-35mm f/2.0 Zuiko and new Panny X lens 12-35mm, which should be plenty fast and wide for most applications.
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How much are those two? I also meant fast, wide and affordable. lol.
 
oly has the new 12 2.0m
slr magic lens has the 12 1.6
pany has 14 2.5

so far 20 1.7 has been a work horse for me. its wide enough for a wide shot, tele enough for a medium shot

IMO panny should focus on increasing the quality of the m43 sensor. with the gh2 generation sensor, its obvious it can compete with the aps-c in terms of low light. as technology gets better, so will its dynamic range & sensitivity. sure aps-c or FF theoretically can eat more light, but if you can get good clean footage at 1600 or higher thats already a great cam. and it wont matter if aps-c or bigger is better.

now they just need to work on the DR.
 
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At the moment the GH2 hacked is the camera to beat. No DSLR out there can touch it, period. Its picture quality is superb and its versatility is totally unmatched. And yes, it has picture profiles.
 
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