Why are dslr rigs so unjustifiably expensive?

[f64manray]

DSLRs opened the doors to a flood of wannabe film makers. I'm not sure how many, but probably in the thousands of still photographers discovering their inner Coppola. As with audio, the smaller the market, the higher priced the gear. But with the dawn of home recording in the late 90's, we saw thousands of wannabe musicians as well as pros start to record at home putting many high end rooms with those SSL boards out of business. We saw new gear manufacturers emerge offering gear with twice+ the capability at less than half the cost.

It's only been a few years since the dawn of the DSLR. The age of a few metal tubes costing $3,000 + dollars is drawing to a close. The market will dictate that as thousands of new customers start looking for off tripod support that doesn't cost 3x what their camera cost. It seems like a year or so ago, there was some asian guy offering zacuto quality rigs on ebay for a fraction of the price which is about what their actually worth.

 

[vision_filmz]

I have yet to see janky third party support gear on any shoot where people are getting paid proper wages. I have yet to see anyone who works day in and day out with their gear settle for less. I have yet to see anyone of any age or background that relies on their equipment investment to put food on the table show up with anything less then the industry standard built and backed by companies like Zacuto and Arri and such. It's not that these people are naive or wasteful with their money, it's that they recognize value beyond the material cost.

Here's a secret; that's what you are paying for.

Anyone can and should vote with their wallet on matters like this. Think Zacuto stuff is overpriced? Don't buy it. If enough people see it that way then Zacuto will have to change their pricing sceme. Simple economics. But to sit here and ***** on the internet about how a product a company makes is obviously and completely way to expensive and the wool is being pulled over all our collective eyes is ludicrous. Honestly, unless you work for any of the specific companies you happen to be complaining about chances are you don't know jack about their specific product costs, or how much it took them to develop. I'm talking actual dollars and cents here. Can anyone tell me exactly the investment Zacuto had to make to bring that shoulder rig to market? Bueller?

Pros who shoot can afford this stuff. Everyone else bitches. These are products for professionals. Simple as that.

100% Wrong. Look at the record label industry for a second. You can have any kid come on set with a Dslr camera and produce a nice project if he knows what he is doing. What this means is those expensive rigs and cameras are really no longer needed when the "Viral" game is at an ultimate high. Record label companies want their projects shot with the least money, best quality & fastest turn around time. To think you need zacuto gear is truly something the label heads & producers dont give a Fvck about.

Sooner or later if these people can shoot their own projects with their cell phones and edit them with the newest software we might all be out of a job (or at least those that are not super talented at what they do).... This is where the future is going.


Also as noted Dslr did not only introduce wanna bee film makers, it also provided a way for those who simply could not afford the more expensive gear. I understand what happened to the Home studio era putting out Big Companies out of business, but that's the nature of the game. There still are several studios that survived, but thy were the ones who had the most talented engineers.

Personally I do not want this Film and Video production to go this route, which is why I learned how to edit, light, direct, write a script and so much more. Keep studying people and creation a vision, that is what will secure your future in this industry.

 

[wgzn]

Your comment goes against all other posts here in dvxuser (just search gini rig) and video reviews on vimeo/youtube.

i think sometimes, in some cases (especially with the DSLR fad) you need to be aware of who's behind these reviews and what their experience and expectations are. as what one guy needs or expects from a piece of gear (or better yet, his UNDERSTANDING of it) will differ greatly from the next guy.

 

[vision_filmz]

i think sometimes, in some cases (especially with the DSLR fad) you need to be aware of who's behind these reviews and what their experience and expectations are. as what one guy needs or expects from a piece of gear (or better yet, his UNDERSTANDING of it) will differ greatly from the next guy.

Fad? The same thing was said about Rap Music, & let alone 30 years later has made billions of dollars and still continues...... This is not a Fad & is the present + future. When the new 5d comes out as well as the 7d, you will truly see how Canon will set themselves apart from the competition even if they are slightly behind now.

 

[Erik Olson]

100% Wrong. Look at the record label industry for a second. You can have any kid come on set with a Dslr camera and produce a nice project if he knows what he is doing. What this means is those expensive rigs and cameras are really no longer needed when the "Viral" game is at an ultimate high. Record label companies want their projects shot with the least money, best quality & fastest turn around time. To think you need zacuto gear is truly something the label heads & producers dont give a Fvck about.

Sooner or later if these people can shoot their own projects with their cell phones and edit them with the newest software we might all be out of a job (or at least those that are not super talented at what they do).... This is where the future is going.

If the future is no-pay Craigslist-caliber "gigs", where nobody cares about achieving the highest possible quality of product, then yes, you're right. You can either make filmed entertainment for a living or as a hobby. There is no blurring of the dividing line.

Low-cost tools don't negate the need for professional equipment, they just put more tools out into the marketplace. Some are game-changers, some won't ever gain traction at the pro level. Professionals aren't averse to using new or inexpensive technology, but they can be slow on the uptake and demand that the technology works in a reliable way that won't make them look bad. It took a fair amount of time for DOF adapters to make their way into mainstream production - although the big players killed that segment with large sensor rigs in very short order.

In other departments - grip for instance - we constantly hear of new uses for off-the-shelf items in filmmaking. RC modeling foam, Depron, is very popular right now. Construction scaffolding elements are finding their way onto grip trucks to help level-out uneven terrain. At the end of the day, professionals want kit that they can rely on in extreme conditions. Gear that won't let them down or get someone hurt. Equipment that performs to very high standards in an unforgiving environment where thousands upon thousands of dollars hinge on it working... every time.

Vote with your wallet and do the best with what you've got, but don't berate people who are using better tools because you cannot afford them or just don't see the value in them.

 

[vision_filmz]

If the future is no-pay Craigslist-caliber "gigs", where nobody cares about achieving the highest possible quality of product, then yes, you're right. You can either make filmed entertainment for a living or as a hobby. There is no blurring of the dividing line.

Low-cost tools don't negate the need for professional equipment, they just put more tools out into the marketplace. Some are game-changers, some won't ever gain traction at the pro level. Professionals aren't averse to using new or inexpensive technology, but they can be slow on the uptake and demand that the technology works in a reliable way that won't make them look bad. It took a fair amount of time for DOF adapters to make their way into mainstream production - although the big players killed that segment with large sensor rigs in very short order.

In other departments - grip for instance - we constantly hear of new uses for off-the-shelf items in filmmaking. RC modeling foam, Depron, is very popular right now. Construction scaffolding elements are finding their way onto grip trucks to help level-out uneven terrain. At the end of the day, professionals want kit that they can rely on in extreme conditions. Gear that won't let them down or get someone hurt. Equipment that performs to very high standards in an unforgiving environment where thousands upon thousands of dollars hinge on it working... every time.

Vote with your wallet and do the best with what you've got, but don't berate people who are using better tools because you cannot afford them or just don't see the value in them.

I agree, but that can also be said the other way. Many people berate the dslr, the cheap equipment, the wanna bee film maker, etc. I truly understand and like your post, I even truly agree with you. I just wanted to note that their is another market out there & the game is changing.

 

[Rick Burnett]

But saying the game is changing is saying nothing new of any time in history. The game is ALWAYS changing. You either keep up, or you don't and get forgotten. I laugh when people get absolutely upset that a DJ isn't using CDs and and is using MP3 or better, because before that, the people that use records were complaining about the people that were using CDs, and then if we went even farther back, I bet the people performing live were all pissed off when someone started recording them and they didn't need to be there to play it anymore. And really, DJing is about mixing music AND selecting proper material to go together, not which technology you are using. However, those that have invested significant time in their lives mixing records, which is the harder way for sure, have a talent that current technology has made easier, and it upsets them.

Robert Johnson used to play blues houses backwards to the crowd because he didn't want people stealing his playing style. I am surprised he let ANYONE record his music.

 

[Erik Olson]

It is changing - and not. The technology of filmmaking is in a constant state of flux, but changes to the way movies are made are slower and less radical. Sure, we have more digital effects and post has changed a lot in the last two decades - but getting from the earliest Avid to what we have now was a long time coming. A couple generations worth of time.

The "hostile" reception DSLR filmmakers experience may be tied to their disconnect from (and, sometimes seemingly apparent disdain for) how professional sets work. These enthusiastic, independent creatives simultaneously proclaim that they "...don't see a need for a traditional camera department" (read: no money), even as they complain about not being able to hold focus or steady their shots without the benefit of OIS. There are cries of conspiracy - bordering on incredulous and angry rioting - if cinema lenses don't talk to a $399 camera procured from the local Costco.

In the meantime, working professionals focus on building relationships that keep them working. These people tend to have a healthier view that technology is temporary and somewhat incidental to their work - even when they have a firm grasp on how to use it.

 

[William_Robinette]

100% Wrong...

You've missed the point of my argument and are shooting holes in the wrong target. Why producers are worried about your support gear I have no idea about. Find new producers (cameras I can understand although it's still infuriating). Erik said the rest of what I would type out very well.

Sooner or later if these people can shoot their own projects with their cell phones and edit them with the newest software we might all be out of a job (or at least those that are not super talented at what they do).... This is where the future is going.

Only if you are very, very bad at your craft. Good people will always find good work. Hard times? Sure, but no one worth their salt is getting replaced by an iPhone.

Also as noted Dslr did not only introduce wanna bee film makers, it also provided a way for those who simply could not afford the more expensive gear. I understand what happened to the Home studio era putting out Big Companies out of business, but that's the nature of the game. There still are several studios that survived, but thy were the ones who had the most talented engineers.

So be one of those most talented people. Anything else is an excuse.

Personally I do not want this Film and Video production to go this route, which is why I learned how to edit, light, direct, write a script and so much more. Keep studying people and creation a vision, that is what will secure your future in this industry.

Exactly.

Look, filmmaking and film/video production is not a right, it's a privilege. It's something to be earned, both in experience/responsibility and also in gear (but that normally follows the former). To think anything else is fooling yourself. We now live in a time where any kid can walk into Best Buy and walk out with a tool that will deliver fantastic results. That's great but doesn't negate the need for high quality, well serviced and supported gear. Because as Erik said, it isn't just the several thousands of dollars hanging over your shoulder; its the tens of thousands of dollars hanging on you delivering for the production. And those are things you very rarely get a second chance at. As an owner/operator I would never and will never put myself in a situation like that willingly by buying substandard equipment. Others might and they are welcome to it. Just don't come home crying.

Kinda akin to wanting to be a race car driver, buying a Porsche Boxster (cause you couldn't afford that 911) and then complaining that 93 octane is to expensive. It's part of the job, it's part of the territory. These are the rules if you want to play.

Sorry. Life.

 

[wgzn]

i was speaking to my buddy with the alexa rig the other day and he was telling me that he had rented his cam kit out to a misc video production and the AC was complaining that his 3 stage arri mattebox was too heavy and the swing out feature made it hard for the DP to move the camera by the mattebox.

so there will always be something that somebody, somewhere is going to complain about.

and to say that

those expensive rigs and cameras are really no longer needed when the "Viral" game is at an ultimate high. Record label companies want their projects shot with the least money, best quality & fastest turn around time. To think you need zacuto gear is truly something the label heads & producers dont give a Fvck about.

is a pretty subjective and in my opinion, ignorant thing to say...

 

[bwwd]

Yes you are right, zacuto stuff does not look like its worth its price especially that we see how its build,bunch of pipes and screws.Its assembled from small parts not manufactures as whole unit and these parts are no way worth the price they want you to pay.

 

[Fellipe]

Yes you are right, zacuto stuff does not look like its worth its price especially that we see how its build,bunch of pipes and screws.Its assembled from small parts not manufactures as whole unit and these parts are no way worth the price they want you to pay.

Assuming you were not being ironic. You summed up my thoughts really well.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Zacuto's success at selling their supposedly "overpriced" gear proves both of your arguments wrong.

In the end, the market decides.

 

[bwwd]

No im not ironic, ttheir gear is not made as a whole unit with its own machined parts, they have a bunch of pipes and screws and they assemble some made up things, its not the same and it doesnt look nice IMO with all these pipes but that just me, i wouldnt buy it.
*Its not always nice to be honest but its how i see it.Even painting these pipes black would help a bit.

 

[Fellipe]

Zacuto's success at selling their supposedly "overpriced" gear proves both of your arguments wrong.

In the end, the market decides.

How can you 'measure' Zacuto's success?

Based on sponsored reviews of 'dslr filmmaking' pros?
Based on a lot of zacuto's users? Of course they will never complain.
look, it's not because zacutos have great reviews that others inexpensive rigs should be junk.

 

[Rick Burnett]

How can you 'measure' Zacuto's success?Based on sponsored reviews of 'dslr filmmaking' pros?Based on a lot of zacuto's users? Of course they will never complain.look, it's not because zacutos have great reviews that others inexpensive rigs should be junk.

But many are junk, painted to look like a professional product only to disappoint.

 

[Fellipe]

But many are junk, painted to look like a professional product only to disappoint.

so black/red or black/blue is synonym of professional product? Their marketing dept are doing a really great job
I just hope gini's aren't junk. lol

 

[Rick Burnett]

so black/red or black/blue is synonym of professional product? Their marketing dept are doing a really great job
I just hope gini's aren't junk. lol

Absolutely not, it's the fact they function well, period. You can't tell me you haven't seen the HUGE number of knock-off brands that try and duplicate professional known products and *claim* that they are just as good, only to disappoint with poor craftsmanship and poor performance. They paint and configure them to look the same so people will *think* they are no different.

So in essence, these knock-offs brands have marketed themselves very well making you think you are getting the same thing.

And I'll even say, I got the chance to see a gini rig first hand. No, I don't think they are bad, and for most DSLR shooters would be perfect. The customer service is HORRIBLE though. If you broke a part and needed a new one, I would NOT count on any swift or possible ANY service.

I don't even own Zacuto, yet, I am the last person to berate them on price. They aren't in my market. Right now, CPM FilmTools and Berkley Systems are what I use and I am very satisfied with a majority of their performance.

 

[Gary Huff]

Sooner or later if these people can shoot their own projects with their cell phones and edit them with the newest software we might all be out of a job (or at least those that are not super talented at what they do).... This is where the future is going.

When's the last time you watched a stranger's home movie (I'm not talking about a little funny clip, I'm talking about a HOME MOVIE in the traditional sense of the word). I think there's going to be a big surprise to all these "filmmakers" out there who are too arrogant to learn the craft once the dividing line between web video/television has been blurred beyond recognition. Would you watch a dramatic series on a major network that was shot on a cell phone by someone who is editing it in iMovie? No you wouldn't, because they don't know the craft and thus that product would be terrible. I think the public at large expects a different kind of quality when they sit down in front of their TV than when they're surfing YouTube, but once they are feeding web content INTO their TVs from their portable device (phone, tablet, ect), they won't want to watch that same terrible crap on their 60" 1080p display. The novelty of streaming video has worn off, and I think things are going to shift yet again.

And, to return to the topic, there are two types of shooters in the world: the ones who use quality gear, and the ones who cannot afford it.

 

[wgzn]

No im not ironic, ttheir gear is not made as a whole unit with its own machined parts, they have a bunch of pipes and screws and they assemble some made up things, its not the same and it doesnt look nice IMO with all these pipes but that just me, i wouldnt buy it.

i have to ask bwwd, have you actually ever used or owned a zacuto product? because you could not be more wrong.

ive owned a large zacuto rig and a handful of individual pieces. and they all follow the same general look and feel. deep black finishes, beveled edges on most angular parts. apparently flawless anodizing. everything fits together flawlessly. and when its locked - ITS LOCKED and doesnt budge.

ive not used ALL the various brands of "rigs" out there. but ive used a variety from the lowest to the highest end. and i will tell you, without doubt. there is a huge, VAST difference in quality and performance / reliability. and when youre doing this for a living. it MORE than justifies the price.