Why am I not getting hired?

Most of the local TV stations have cut their production departments as well, and farm out commercial production to he lowest bidder on a yearly contract. I was asked to rebid on the contract at a local station, and when I found out where the bid was at I dropped out. If I remember right they wanted to pay what I would charge for a months work for the whole yearly contract. Sad indeed. The TV stations really don't have their advertisers best interests at hand. The air buy is all that matters to them along with new business. And the new model for advertising agencies is to spend less on production, and instead put that money into the air buy, because the bigger the air buy, the bigger their 15% is.
 
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nedcam said:
P.S. Don't know if you have a girlfriend but one common denominator among freelancers who have survived the biz is they are married to someone making a STEADY paycheck, in my case a teacher so we always had access to insurance and if I had slow paying clients we could still go grocery shopping. Two freelancers can not make it together from my observations of 38 years in the freelancer biz, one has to have a steady paycheck, hopefully in a field that it is hard to fire them like government, academia, etc.
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This is what is commonly known as having a 'Sugar Momma ' and is great advice. 😉
In all seriousness, Ned is right. Many clients take 90 days to pay (even longer sometimes).
 
Passion. It's the one thing that will make or break you in this business. Most of us take it for granted, but it was one of the main things that I looked for when hiring people for my former employer. The degree and school was secondary. The resume you had to have, but really doesn't mean much for entry level people. The only thing I'd look for on resumes is if the applicant can spell. Typos on your resume was the kiss of death since it showed me you either weren't detail oriented or didn't care.
Reels don't get you hired unless they are mind blowingly good. If your reel is that good, then you should have the work it came from and show that it too is mind blowing good. The good work comes from a place of passion and talent.
Nobody hiring you? **** it. Go out and do your own work and make it awesome! Make enough awesome work and people will start to notice.
 
One thing about having a really excellent reel... They may not hire because you are "over qualified". One of our students went down to Full Sail to get their Bachelor's degree in film and came back with a rather impressive reel, was a nice guy and knew a ton of stuff, but couldn't get a production job (creative services or shooting/editing commercials) to save his life. Most were responding that after seeing his work and degree, that he wouldn't be happy doing local production and was over qualified.

Obviously there might have been other factors involved, but he said he was willing to take whatever pay they were offering to pay off his student loans (about $70k for 21 months at Full Sail back about 6 years ago).
 
So when we say the midde market is pretty much gone, what does that leave? Most people competing over a 3 or 4 figure bottom-end job - OR - a few competing over a higher-end 5, 6 or 7 figure one?

What is a bottom company? A guy with a handful of gear working cheap?
What is an upper company? A full studio with full crew, RED or Arri cameras and grip truck?

It seems there should still be some room for a company in the middle that has more capabilities (more gear, software, skill, reliability) than most of the DSLR kids to offer more than they can do yet come in under the price of the big boys with similar product. ??
 
Run&Gun said:
This is STILL a largely word-of-mouth business. Almost 20 years in and I still do not have a website and I am not listed with any crewing services(even though I occasionally get calls from some). About two years ago, at the behest of a producer friend, I finally put some pieces on-line on Vimeo, so that I could have some work available to view, for people that wanted to. I still don't think a single person has ever viewed any of it.

Internships are worth there weight in gold. Also, make friends. You never know when that person you were nice to may need someone or may recommend you to someone.
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This a million times over. I haven't had a demo reel since college, 1998, and my website is a logo and a phone number.
 
firehawk said:
So when we say the midde market is pretty much gone, what does that leave? Most people competing over a 3 or 4 figure bottom-end job - OR - a few competing over a higher-end 5, 6 or 7 figure one?

What is a bottom company? A guy with a handful of gear working cheap?
What is an upper company? A full studio with full crew, RED or Arri cameras and grip truck?

It seems there should still be some room for a company in the middle that has more capabilities (more gear, software, skill, reliability) than most of the DSLR kids to offer more than they can do yet come in under the price of the big boys with similar product. ??
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There is, that's where I work. In the middle. Project prices that range from $500 to $100,000. If you consider that the middle. But if you throw in 200 million dollar Hollywood features I guess the middle would probably be somewhere in the $250,000 to $5,000,000 range. But I would typically consider the former to be the middle market. The bigger Hollywood features like that would be one percenters the same way billionaires are one percenters, millionaires are still rich and the middle class is below $250K a year.
 
Haven't seen the OP in a while, might have scared him away. I was reminded of another resource, Studio Daily also has a job listings area (seems to be free), went looking through and there were a few production jobs listed (and a few not at all related to TV or film).
 
The legal video market seems very small niche market that's super interesting though. I definitely started reading that forum and there is lots of good info on there. Thanks!

x002657 said:
This may/may not be helpful, but I started 10 yrs ago, making video my 2nd career after a long corporate career that had nothing to do with video. My original intention was to do only legal video, a field in which depositions are the mainstay and anything creative is rare. It doesn't take a lot of equipment, but it all falls on you. (If you blow the audio in a dep, you've just about killed your career).
My degree is in communications/public speaking, and I was encouraged by professors to get into voiceovers. I started by doing some vo training and cold-calling small local indie producers, (usually 1-5 person shops). Lots of people were willing to talk (brag) about their experience, and one who primarily did promotional and honorarium/tribute work finally offered to use me as a PA on an on-call basis. The pay was low ($ 100 per day, whether it was 3 hrs or 6), but in a period of about 2 yrs I learned a lot about working alone. (Enough to finally invest in more equipment). It took me 4 yrs of periodic, low-paying jobs to pay off my first camera, tripod, and mics, and I think my first dep came after about 3 yrs. Legal is a tough field to break-in to, as most lawyers don't want to spend the money, and much of the work is already covered by large to mid-sized court reporting agencies. (I've seen some firms advertise, but some pay as little as $ 15 per hour). I supplemented that with occasional low-paying jobs from some of the freelance sites.
Luckily, for the past 3 yrs I've had the good fortune to become the preferred editor for a small company that does "Day in the Life" videos, about the closest thing you'll find to being "creative" in the legal video field. For those, sometimes I only edit, sometimes I do some narration/vo, and occasionally I even get to write. I've worked on about 40 of those over the past 3 yrs or so, but it's far from being dependable. Also, you probably don't need the latest equipment, e,g, a 4K cam, because most courts in my state don't have the resources/equipment to play anything other than standard def.
I still get occasional calls out of the blue to edit someone's home footage, put together a montage, or make a family heritage video, but not many people are willing to pay a reasonable price for those.
In any aspect of the video business, the bottom line seems to be that you have to pay both your dues and your "do's". If you consider working alone, check out the "Single Person Crew" forum. Lots of tips there.
Best of luck.
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If lytro can make an affordable consumer grade video camera we all are done for.

Alex H. said:
There's an unfortunate expectation from folks coming out of film school that a degree and a reel should mean instant work, or instant clients. The thing is, you have to build two other pieces: a working reputation, and a resumé of real-world experience. And those two things will each help build the other.

Further, it doesn't start as a just-add-water production company or immediate job as a DP. You have to start at the bottom. I don't know what kind of a market Boise has to offer these days, so I can't tell you where the "bottom" is there. I started at a local network affiliate, knowing that news was not my longterm goal. A few years there got me into a cable network production company, but that's not something every city has to offer. A few more years at that company and I went freelance. My old department at the cable networks was eliminated a couple years after I left.

The network affiliate where I started is much different now, too. The aforementioned cuts from the large, corporate owners have hit hard at that station. Robotic cameras have replaced all but a couple of the studio PAs. The Chyron op is gone, and now all the audio folks are gone. Then entire show is pre-programmed into a computer as automated video/gfx/audio cues, and the director simply advances through the playlist. Most folks have been replaced by a spacebar. Even in the newsroom, things have shifted drastically. The traditional photog is all but extinct. I think they have three or four left, but the trend shifted a few years ago to backpack journalists: reporters who also shoot and edit all their own stuff. Now, they're even letting interns shoot a lot of stuff. Of course, all this reflects on the (downward-spiraling) quality of the on-air product, but all the parent company is worried about are the bottom line and filling in the gaps between commercials.

You can still start at a network affiliate, but entry-level these days is not just a minimum-wage endeavor, it's also predominantly part-time. It can, though, get you into working relationships with folks in the local market. Most stations also have in-house promotions departments for producing their own image spots as well as spots for local advertisers. You might have to start off driving media around town for delivery/pickup, but a foot in the door is a foot in the door, and there's a pretty high turnover rate in local news production so the opportunity to move into a better spot may happen in due time.

If you do have enough respurces to be able to write, shoot, and edit small-scale stuff on your own, you can also try cold-calling to pick up some local commercial and promo pieces. Watch TV. There's still plenty of garbage on TV when it comes to local commercials, so look for the worst of the worst and offer to do it better. You might event have to offer a price match as an "introductory" rate, just to convince them to accept.

David is absolutely right when he says the middle of the production market is gone. You aren't going to get the high-end production right out of the gate, so you're going to have to build yourself up with the low-end. To be honest, there's a democratization of production (thanks to the DSLR "revolution" and everybody now being a filmmaker) that has wrecked the market. Newbies come up in the local production scene and get work by low-balling and undercutting, so now there's a general expectation that local production should be dirt-cheap. And the market is saturated because everyone has a boutique production company now. Too many chefs, not enough restaurant goers.

Knoxville was, just a few years ago, the third largest producer of cable network programming in the country. It's still technically high-ranking just because we're home to a major network company, as well as another home shopping category network. But a lot of the production isn't happening here anymore; only being broadcast/cablecast from here. The freelance market isn't what it once was. I just got 9 days of work on a show for another cable network show not originating locally, and that is an absolute anomaly. 1-2 days of paid work on a gig is typical, and there are serious dry spells. This shoot was like manna from heaven in the freelance world.

You also need to define the path you want to pursue. Are you wanting to work in TV? Produce commercials and corporate spots? Make your way into motion pictures? Or just take what you can for as long as you can get it? Look at the local market and see what it has to offer and to sustain. If Boise doesn't have much, it may be time to relocate if this career path is that important to you.

Either way, you're going to need to find a source of income sooner rather than later. Perhaps you decide to take a job in a completely different field to subsidize your efforts in TV/film. Use that as a chance to build up your reel with current and paid productions, even if you have to charge clients a bare minimum. You're still going to have to work your way up and build your reputation as well as your resumé and reel, because word-of-mouth still weighs heavily on getting people to give you a shot.
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alaskacameradude,

you are all right. After reading all of these stories that people are posting it is kind of reminding me of being a painter where everyone told me that it was going to be super difficult.

alaskacameradude said:
Ok, I am going to jump in on this one. My background....I got a 4 year degree in TV production.
While at the University, I did production for PBS and master control operator for a local TV station.
After I graduated, I worked at the PBS station covering the state legislature (CSPAN style stuff).
Then I jumped to a news station as a videographer/editor. Shot and edited 4 or 5 stories a day,
plus live shots. Moved up to be a producer/director in charge of 12 live newscasts a week....but
still shot the 'biggest' stuff that they needed to look really good (sit down '60 Minutes' style stuff).
Also did production work for the 'in house' production arm of the TV station. The most I EVER made,
(and this was after 10 years of experience and being in charge of most everything) was $15/hr. Reality
is, most local TV stations and production companies pay utter crap for wages....and it's only getting worse
as they all now ask for user generated content. 'Just send us your cell phone video or pictures, and be a
SUPERVIEWER!' they say. 'We will put your name on it when we run it!' And people send them free video,
and the station lays off another paid worker.

I got out of working for the local TV station and production houses and started my own business. As has been
mentioned, it's a whole different beast. Yes, you have to be good at production work. But even more important,
you have to be good at business. It's different, but I pretty much had to do this, because working for other people
was a dead end that would never allow me to do things such as buy a house.....take a vacation or anything else
that I wanted to do. I'm in a much smaller market than even Boise, so I could either get into another field (which
I had no interest in doing) or expand my skills to be sort of a mid range production house.

I understand the people who say you shouldn't get into the field, and there is a 'race to the bottom' and so on.
The field is changing, and a lot of people who made a lot of money, are now not able to command the same rates.
At the same time there IS some opportunity, in the very mid range market that is shrinking. If you can produce
much better work than the 'kids with DSLR's' who are charging $200 a day, but not charge the rates that the big
agencies charge, you can pick up some work. Because there is a huge need for content these days. Every business
and organization wants video for their web page, Facebook page and Twitter feed. Some of the mid sized ones are
even willing to pay for it. Not what some on here think you should get, but if you are doing most of the work
yourself and just hiring a 2nd shooter for a couple days here and there, and paying for a music track and a VO guy,
you can do some pretty nice stuff and make much better money that you would working for someone else. Remember,
when you work for someone else, you MUST bring in more money to the business than they pay you, or they won't keep
you on. They can't pay your more than you are bringing in, unless they take that money from another employee somewhere!
I'm not going to lie and say it's easy, it isn't. It's hard work learning all the business skills you have to have.
Getting clients isn't easy either, but after you have some, many come back to you again and again as long as
they feel your rates are fair, because you are a known entity. It's tricky business working for yourself, but in this
day and age, I just feel like if you work for someone else in the media field, you almost can't make a living.
I have too many friends losing their jobs after winning multiple awards for their companies to have any illusions
about the field. There is no loyalty to the employees, it's all about the businesses bottom line, and things are
being squeezed these days. To some degree, the big agencies are doing it to themselves. They get rid of the
guy they used to pay a decent salary too, in favor of the cheap kid.....and the guy they fired, starts freelancing
production work out of sheer desperation for money. It's a vicious cycle, and it's not easy navigating it.
I have been lucky to find somewhat of a niche in between the really cheap guys, and the really expensive ones,
and make enough to pay my bills.
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70k in debt... that's why I stopped going to art school. Pratt Institute was 50k a year when I went there. PNCA 17K and the Art Institute of Portland was also around 17k if I remember correctly.... I'm sooo glad that I stopped going to art schools after the 3rd one

Greg_E said:
One thing about having a really excellent reel... They may not hire because you are "over qualified". One of our students went down to Full Sail to get their Bachelor's degree in film and came back with a rather impressive reel, was a nice guy and knew a ton of stuff, but couldn't get a production job (creative services or shooting/editing commercials) to save his life. Most were responding that after seeing his work and degree, that he wouldn't be happy doing local production and was over qualified.

Obviously there might have been other factors involved, but he said he was willing to take whatever pay they were offering to pay off his student loans (about $70k for 21 months at Full Sail back about 6 years ago).
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I'm in the poverty range then. 100K a year is making it to me

roxics said:
There is, that's where I work. In the middle. Project prices that range from $500 to $100,000. If you consider that the middle. But if you throw in 200 million dollar Hollywood features I guess the middle would probably be somewhere in the $250,000 to $5,000,000 range. But I would typically consider the former to be the middle market. The bigger Hollywood features like that would be one percenters the same way billionaires are one percenters, millionaires are still rich and the middle class is below $250K a year.
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rustyrehl said:
I'm in the poverty range then. 100K a year is making it to me
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I hate to say it, but even decent entry-level work in my market (Los Angeles) is $60k/year for a full time job, or PA work starts at $750/week and you won't be working nonstop. So that's less. It's sort of assumed that if you're just breaking in here, either you've saved up a lot of money, have family money, or have a wealthy significant other. So if you're even approaching $100k now you're doing really really well out of school, even if that's not really a living wage most places.

That said, everyone does it differently and people pull it off. The lesson isn't to get to discouraged but to capitalize on whatever unique resources you have to capitalize on. Most people I know who stuck around a few years made it to $250k eventually, but even if you go union as an AC or grip, for instance, $100k is about normal to start out. But it's fine, people can make ends meet. They have to. And you can find month-long gigs that pay nearly six figures, it happens once you're established. Not to me... but it happens regularly. A friend is a cameraman on cooking shows, I think he makes $30k/month, not "Hollywood glamour," but I'd take it in a heartbeat.
 
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Hi Rusty,

My mistake. I thought Greg was the OP. Wanted to make sure you were still here before I write again because I have been thinking about what you wrote but first need the answer to these:

• How old are you?
• Living at home for free I hope?
• What gear do you own?


And go to CC's Business & Marketing forum and search for the starting out posts. Your issue has been analyzed ad nauseam. So tomorrow I will add a good idea but it basically comes down to how I did it: Find an older successful guy who needs free help for a trade in training.

Now that I have 2 years left I can look back and say this is a horrible business to be in for several reasons, but the most negative aspect is that there is no true cash flow, it is a "project" business: Find the gig, do the gig, bill for the gig, get check, spend the money, repeat. Over and over forever. It is a fun, exciting biz, lots of variety, but it's not a true business in terms of being able to do financial planning and projections. I don't have a sugar mama but it is critical to have a wife with a steady paycheck. And any freelancer who marries a woman who likes to spend is doomed. You want to find a coupon clipper. Gorgeous of course, but frugal.

Remember: Any chimp that is halfway creative and technical can now (unfortunately) make a video but very few can figure out how to make a sustainable living at it. Someone older has to show you the ropes. I survived because I was taken under someone's wing and I learned the secret business aspects of surviving and that is much, much harder than figuring out the tech aspects, which 90% of the video geeks concern themselves with, as you see on the camera forums.

So your homework is look deep into Productionhub.com for pros within 50 miles and I will get back to you with tricks. If you are batting zero I surmise much of your problem is in your presentation. I did not look at your reel because I knew what it would be like and the above posters confirmed it, but what I do is I have custom reels for that particular prospect. I have 117 password protected videos online.

But I digress...send me your present cover letter and resume plus your website if you have one to ned (at) nedmiller.com. It has to be benefits laden. No one gives a rat's ass about me or you, ONLY what you can do for them. Immediately start going to your Chamber of Commerce meetings, then join. Why? You'll probably NEVER get a video gig from those types, after all, they tend to be small service people trying to gain biz from each other. So why go? It will teach a kid like you how to present yourself. Get a nice biz casual outfit, a trim, some biz cards, and learn how to do an elevator pitch, the right handshake, body posture, eye contact, etc. No one is going to give a person your age a real project (or staff gig) unless you are impressive. So that and the correct cover letter, resume, specific reel, etc. all adds up to getting your chance. And voice is also important. I hire crew all across the country, mainly through Production Hub, and I have to make an instant analysis of the person's personality based on their phone persona.

And some of it is luck and luck is defined as Preparation Meets Opportunity. But alas, all this has been on CC so research that.

Later,

Ned
 
rustyrehl said:
The legal video market seems very small niche market that's super interesting though. I definitely started reading that forum and there is lots of good info on there. Thanks!
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What forum are you referring to? I got certified by the agcv.org, I don't do depos but I do longer litigation videos. Very well paying but hard to break in, unless their present guy messes up or is booked. So tell me what forum?

There's the Yahoo Legal Video group. Very good place to learn but it's a highly technical.
 
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