Why am I not getting hired?

[David W. Jones]

try and get an internship / job at a local TV station or a local production company.


the reality is going back to school and focus on a field that is in need of folks with degrees: finance, accounting, computer science, any most any kind of engineering.

Many of the regional production houses have closed their doors as the economy has changed. Once upon a time there was enough middle ground work to keep the ball rolling. But now it seems that the middle has all but disappeared, with only high budget work, or low budget work. And the majority of the local TV stations are now owned by very large corporations which have cut jobs down to the minimum. If a station still uses manually operated cameras in their studio, it is a $7.95 an hour job.

Truth be told, your best advice is above.... Go back to school and get a degree in a field with job openings which pays a salry you can support yourself on.

All the best!

Dave

 

[Greg_E]

One station locally is paying $9.10 an hour, but the graduate I talked to about this said she makes more working at the grocery store where she's been for 3 years. This is the sad reality of TV in a local market.

Timewarner hires mostly cheap camera ops to shoot commercials, it all gets sent to a place where they bang out commercials in about an hour for playback later that day, there is NO craft in these spots.

The few production companies that we have locally haven't hired in over 5 years, they have their key clients and that keeps them going. If those key clients drop, they will be closing their doors.

Sorry, it's a grim outlook! See if you can break into the remote TV world with sports, but even that is changing from the $450.00 a day rate down to $200.00 a day with productions done on a tricaster out of a snowmobile trailer.

 

[rustyrehl]

Thanks! I appreciate it! I will definitely refocus my efforts on a few select companies!

Network with people from school. That's huge. If you have friends who got hired and are getting offers, ask them to forward them.

Breaking into a larger market often requires actually going there (who in NYC is going to hiring someone from Idaho when there are tons of people from NYC) and taking some time networking. I have friends who were super qualified and connected and it took them a year or two out of school after moving to a major market (LA) to get a full time job that paid anything approaching living wage.

Specificity is valuable in a larger market. In smaller markets, posing as an agency can help. In bigger ones, having one specific skillset to get you through the door can be valuable. Maybe you can shoot macro and product photography well, maybe you do good screen comps, maybe you have people skills.

To that extent, target your applications. Five applications a day sounds like too many. Send one good one a week and follow up on all of them. I got good advice from someone who had a fan of his production company's and she was from the mid-west and he's from LA and she kept hounding him on twitter and he was like fine, I'll interview you for a job after she messaged him for a year or so. And her interest in the company was honest and she was good for the job so now she's working the front desk at a really awesome production company.

The one constant is it takes time. A year or two is normal. Internships can help, not always.

Also, few people are as successful as they claim. Those who are very successful often keep their mouths shut.

 

[rustyrehl]

Osslund. I am sorry that you feel that way. How do you suggest that I structure a reel? Are you talking about showing them a final product? Also I'm a big fan of your site.

It's all about contacts getting work and something that proves you can handle a shoot or production. Your reel doesn't really show that as it's just a bunch of clips with cheesy music added. Try to lunch with contacts in the business and show something more representative of what you actually can deliver.

 

[rustyrehl]

David,

My degree is in Visual Arts. I graduated in December and I am still struggling and yes I have thought about going into a different field.
I think about it all the time actually. My roommate just graduated with a degree in Computer Science. He has been out of school less than a month and already has a job that pays 70k a year.
It is hard for me to not look at that and realize that video is not in economic demand right now. But I still want to try. I haven't quite hit the point of diminishing returns on my time investment to learning videography yet.

What is your degree in?

Thought about a field where there are jobs available like healthcare, nursing and the like?

I'll be brutally honest. The fields of audio/video/film production have changed drastically since I got into it many years ago. I see tons of kids graduating from Radio/TV/Film programs only to find out there are no jobs available. I'm glad I'm on my way out, as I wouldn't want to be just starting out in this industry. And I sure wouldn't want to be a parent paying for film school knowing there are very few jobs available for my graduating student.

That being said, I wish you the best and hope you find work.

Dave

 

[rustyrehl]

Greg,

I appreciate your honesty. I have looked into working for a news station and that definitely is an option but I haven't made that leap yet. I have been trying to apply to big companies and maybe that has been my problem.
But you are totally right about everything that you said. Weddings do make a lot of money if you can stand it and there are a lot of people out there that think that they are film makers. Youtube, Vimeo and the Iphone have been blessings and curses for us film makers.

I can tell you where jobs are happening...

Industrial video/corporate video. Learn how to set up small multi-camera systems for meetings, graduations, etc. It may be schlock work, but work it is.

News (yup I said it) still hard to get in, but way easier than making features. Still a few people in the studios, many more out shooting the stories. The top tier stations are still using two person crews (talent and shooter).

Weddings, if you are good, you and your crew can easily pull in $5000.00 for each event, normally takes at least two of you and your own gear. Word of mouth is your best friend.

I'm sure none of this common place stuff is what you were thinking when you went to school, but it is reality. Take what you can find. You had some good looking clips, but I didn't see anything that was a finished product. Even I can pull off a few good clips here and there, but I'm far from what any would call a real videographer (or higher level). But I can fix most of your broken "stuff", and that's my niche.

Obviously you have some gear. If you want to make commercials, then find a charity and ask them if they can give you a receipt for work performed for your taxes (donation), then make them some spots they can run on the web and on local TV. If you want to make stories, then find a charity and tell their story (documentary). Get your full works out there for people to see, make it better than other stuff out there. You need to remember that every @$$#0le with a camera thinks they're some great film maker, and those idiots are willing to work for peanuts. We just graduated another 40 people just like you, of those 40 about 5 are going straight to work. Of those 40 only one is really up to the level required for work, he was editing for our PR department, and is now taking overflow work for our Timewarner to edit commercials. There are about 5 behind camera jobs in news here, most are part time. About another 6 of those graduates would be ready to work in the studio, but most are going on to a 4 year degree. We teach nuts and bolts TV, supposedly ready for the job market.

 

[rustyrehl]

I started an LLC this year but I am still working on acquiring clients. Do a lot of companies actually use Avid? I have never touched it. Everyone I know uses Final Cut or Adobe products.

It's not for everyone, but mastering a skill set like becoming an Avid ae can get you hired quickly at a young age and I think rates start at about $2000/week.

On the flip side, starting your own business seems to be a really good choice for those in a mid-sized market. Not for me personally, for better or worse.

 

[rustyrehl]

Andrew,

Thank you. Sincerely I do appreciate you and everyone else who has given me feedback on this topic. It means a lot and I am going to say thank you a lot so don't think that my thanks has any less value.
How long have you lived in LA? How much of a rat race is it? How long does it take you to try to work? How much is rent and how long did it take you to get your first job? You can PM me if you want.

What types of positions are you applying to? Not many people will trust someone 6mo out of school to shoot/edit for them (especially if it's out of state). Have you hit up any of your local TV/cable stations and/or post/production facilities to see if they have openings for PAs or interns? How many jobs (real world jobs, not student film type jobs) are on your resume? Don't let the current lack of success discourage you because it's par for the course. If the job is posted online there are easily 100 other people applying for it and most of them probably have a lot more experience than you do. And to a degree this will never change. If you stick around the business long enough as a freelancer/independent contractor then you'll very many times have three jobs at any given time. The work that pays the bills, the work that makes you tolerate the work that pays the bills, and the work of finding more work.

Your reel needs work. Currently it feels very random and in dire need of fewer light leaks, and as an editing reel it doesn't play at all. For an editing reel I'd say don't bother with a reel at all. Make a page on Vimeo that's only stuff you've edited and send people the link to that portfolio of work. An montage style editing reel is only useful if you looking to get work editing montage style editing reels.


-Andrew

 

[rustyrehl]

I want to work for a production company because you get paid there. Production companies are often hired by ad agencies or companies to do work. I think that by working for one I will get more experience and won't have to worry about finding business on my own. Where did you learn Nuke?

I watched your reel and the biggest critique I have is that it seemed like a mix of commercial/music video/narrative, with no strong focus on either nor any clues to let me know what I was watching. It's too broad. Figure out what you want to do and make a reel that supports that goal.
It is possible to get on with production companies, I've had the privilege of working for two, one in Fortine, MT, and the other in St. Maries, ID. The first job was based on a feature film that I shot for $2k, and the second was a referral from the first job as well as being a generalist rather than a specialist. I'm currently working at the St. Maries outfit, but as a word of warning, it is far from creatively fulfilling. So I've come to treat it as a job, and I try to grow my skillset on that job which in turn benefits my personal and creative work. For instance, I was hired with an advanced knowledge of After Effects and intermediate knowledge of Blender. I know that my next feature film will require more than what AE can give me, as well as a more advanced knowledge of Blender. So I've shifted to doing my work in Nuke and have pushed what I know how to do in Blender. And now I have those skills for my personal work. I apologize if this seems off topic, but it's an area that I feel does relate but is not often talked about: Why do you want to work for a production company? For me it's a way to pay the bills, but also to further my own work which is what I really live for.

 

[rustyrehl]

Do you work on the East Coast? If so what is the market like? What do you need if you don't need a resume or reel?

Does a resume and demo reel even work in this industry now? I don't know? What I do know is there's still a ton of opportunity in the NJ/NYC market for younger folks in all sectors.

Check Mandy's Film and TV Production Directory, search NYC. There's constant no-lo budget films in need of every aspect of production. This is probably a good starting point

If your looking for a staff job, that may be a stretch. If your looking to make a move in your career, check the above listings and see the work potential

 

[rustyrehl]

DPStewart,

You are the best! And I see you everywhere on this site.

There is FAR LESS entry level paid work in this industry than people think there is.

Everyone I know who actually gets paid well has created their own business and, in a sense, creates their own work.
And each one has done it differently.

My advice - form a production company with one or two other people at your level, and make sure at least one of you REALLY knows how to MAKE jobs appear! Like a real gifted salesperson.

Pro video equipment costs only 1/100th of what it did 10-years ago. Your competition is pretty much EVERYBODY.

 

[rustyrehl]

Is there anyway to change video from being word of mouth to being something that you can apply for? But isn't everything word of mouth?

This is STILL a largely word-of-mouth business. Almost 20 years in and I still do not have a website and I am not listed with any crewing services(even though I occasionally get calls from some). About two years ago, at the behest of a producer friend, I finally put some pieces on-line on Vimeo, so that I could have some work available to view, for people that wanted to. I still don't think a single person has ever viewed any of it.

Internships are worth there weight in gold. Also, make friends. You never know when that person you were nice to may need someone or may recommend you to someone.

 

[rustyrehl]

Yeah man. That sounds like a rough road for 25K.

Jobs usually come from knowing someone. Jobs may come from reels that exhibit extreme talent. Jobs can come from plain luck, being at the right place at the right time.

Paying your dues is the answer now more than it was 20+ years ago. There are fewer jobs and way more competition due to many reasons stated above. So, try and get an internship / job at a local TV station or a local production company. After a year or so of that, try to move up the ladder at home or away. If this doesn't sound like something you're interested in, the reality is going back to school and focus on a field that is in need of folks with degrees: finance, accounting, computer science, any most any kind of engineering.

 

[Policar]

If you want to start your own production company, that's a viable path from what I understand, everyone seems to be doing it and buying all manner of Reds and stuff, so I figure a lot of people are making six figures or maybe they just had money to start with. To me it seems very competitive and I don't consider myself as having the talent or... more importantly... the connection to clients. I've seen corporate videos I know I could do a better job with than what I see, but I don't have access to clients, so it's whatever. Some people thrive here. I've met them. But not me.

If you want to move to a major market, I would suggest learning a specific skill... Avid ae is just an example where I know people who are just out of school are getting work, but I can't figure out Avid to save my life... but get certified on some stuff, put together a resume and website only advertising a specific skill... move to a major market and network. None of the skills you learn at the best film school in the country will get you a job out of school, except maybe AFI's cinematography program as it's designed specifically for this purpose. A narrow technical focus is maybe the easiest path to paying bills in a creative field, however the work itself won't be creative to start with, maybe not for quite a while.

 

[firehawk]

About 10 years ago I wanted to work at the best (and certainly most arrogant) production company in my city. I visited a few minutes, rubbed the owner's ego with a compliment, dropped off a slam dunk demo reel and fairly impressive resume (I probably had more degrees than they did). Talk seemed to go well but never heard back.

A friend of mine was head of production for a local Hearst ABC TV station which later become the only person in production as they cut pay, staff and increased workload, and he hated it and hated them. Low pay, no respect, mundane un-creative work and being taken advantage of.

I worked for Nexstar Broadcasting and have nothing good to say about them at all so I won't.

As far as producing weddings: Since the massive influx of kids with a camera and cheap gear, I think the wedding market has largely gone same road of bottom end and high end, with the middle ground shrinking. Tons of kids willing to do a $500 wedding. Some companies charge $5,000 and much more, but I think they are a minority.

If you have your own company then you have to deal with all the cons of running it and there are many. But the pro of working for another company is they have to deal with the cons of it instead of you.

It seems to be successful now you need to have good sales skills (or hire someone that does), be really good at something that you can target and be a good business man.

The kids usually aren't good at sales and are poor at business.

If I were going to try to do production as an employee I would consider trying to get into a big company or institution as their media guy. I've seen companies cease a long term relationship with a production company, opting to instead hire one of their guys (who left) to do it in-house for them instead of paying the production company so much.
Happened to be the good, but arrogant production company mentioned earlier. They saw it more feasable to buy a little gear of their own and hire an employee than to keep hiring the production company.

 

[David W. Jones]

If you want to start your own production company, that's a viable path from what I understand, everyone seems to be doing it and buying all manner of Reds and stuff, so I figure a lot of people are making six figures or maybe they just had money to start with..

The rule of thumb is.... If you want to make 1 million dollars a year owning your own production company, then you need to start with 5 million dollars. :undecided

 

[Josh Bass]

Have youi tried applying at places like this (this is in Houston where I live)? They specify a degree and 1 year experience. . .that's pretty close to where you are experience-wise. I have a feeling it's not a great place to work 'cause I see ads from them seems like every few years (i.e. high turnover) or even more frequently. Always on Craigslist. But maybe a more realistic target for you at your level.

http://houston.craigslist.org/tfr/5589166461.html

Something it took me a long time to realize was how little I knew right out of school. . .I FELT at the time like I knew everything, only realizing how little it actually was as time went on. That goes hand in hand with having a difficult time getting hired. I don't know, again, if it's still like this out there but generally the entry level jobs at the big places won't have you actually shooting/editing/etc., it would be more of an assistant role. . .help out as PA/grip on shoots, maybe log footage, clean up around the place, etc. etc., with the opportunity to move up later. If you want to be doing the "fun stuff" you might have to aim real real low right now and take what you can get. Eye on the prize and all that.

 

[Publimix]

DP Steward is always right.
Only disturbing thing is that his 'so called avatar' is his real photo from his driving licence.

 

[rustyrehl]

Yeah it does seem to be all about cultivating relationships.

About 10 years ago I wanted to work at the best (and certainly most arrogant) production company in my city. I visited a few minutes, rubbed the owner's ego with a compliment, dropped off a slam dunk demo reel and fairly impressive resume (I probably had more degrees than they did). Talk seemed to go well but never heard back.

A friend of mine was head of production for a local Hearst ABC TV station which later become the only person in production as they cut pay, staff and increased workload, and he hated it and hated them. Low pay, no respect, mundane un-creative work and being taken advantage of.

I worked for Nexstar Broadcasting and have nothing good to say about them at all so I won't.

As far as producing weddings: Since the massive influx of kids with a camera and cheap gear, I think the wedding market has largely gone same road of bottom end and high end, with the middle ground shrinking. Tons of kids willing to do a $500 wedding. Some companies charge $5,000 and much more, but I think they are a minority.

If you have your own company then you have to deal with all the cons of running it and there are many. But the pro of working for another company is they have to deal with the cons of it instead of you.

It seems to be successful now you need to have good sales skills (or hire someone that does), be really good at something that you can target and be a good business man.

The kids usually aren't good at sales and are poor at business.

If I were going to try to do production as an employee I would consider trying to get into a big company or institution as their media guy. I've seen companies cease a long term relationship with a production company, opting to instead hire one of their guys (who left) to do it in-house for them instead of paying the production company so much.
Happened to be the good, but arrogant production company mentioned earlier. They saw it more feasable to buy a little gear of their own and hire an employee than to keep hiring the production company.

 

[rustyrehl]

Thanks man. Developing trust with a company seems to be what I need to do.

Have youi tried applying at places like this (this is in Houston where I live)? They specify a degree and 1 year experience. . .that's pretty close to where you are experience-wise. I have a feeling it's not a great place to work 'cause I see ads from them seems like every few years (i.e. high turnover) or even more frequently. Always on Craigslist. But maybe a more realistic target for you at your level.

http://houston.craigslist.org/tfr/5589166461.html

Something it took me a long time to realize was how little I knew right out of school. . .I FELT at the time like I knew everything, only realizing how little it actually was as time went on. That goes hand in hand with having a difficult time getting hired. I don't know, again, if it's still like this out there but generally the entry level jobs at the big places won't have you actually shooting/editing/etc., it would be more of an assistant role. . .help out as PA/grip on shoots, maybe log footage, clean up around the place, etc. etc., with the opportunity to move up later. If you want to be doing the "fun stuff" you might have to aim real real low right now and take what you can get. Eye on the prize and all that.