FS7: Who's using the XDCA extension unit with the FS7 What are your thought?

C

chancenorris

Active member
if you're using the XDCA what's been your experience so far? Is the raw workflow worth it? i'm considering purchasing a unit and already own an odyssey Q plus and IDX battery.

Thanks,

Chance Norris
 
Very positive impression of XDCA. Camera has been used already on 1 multi-cam job so the Genlock was critical. I like "real batteries." In my case, I have a ton of Dionic 90's so I'm using V mount to AB adapter. Adds some balance to camera when shooting handheld. I'm not that concerned about internal ProRes in FS7 since I use an Odyssey 7Q+. And XAVC is so much more compact than ProRes that I prefer to shoot XAVC to the cards. But nice to know it's there if there were ever demand for it.

Nothing negative about the back. Just a question of whether the $2K is worth it to you. It was worth it to me but of course your mileage may differ.

Ned Soltz
 
RAW workflow is very tough since it's uncompressed. I haven't used it on the FS7, but pretty identical to the FS700 + 7Q RAW rates which I have used. 4K RAW uncompressed is too big IMO, we tried it on a production and there were too many card changes and erasures of 7Q cards.

I mainly got it for the 4K Pro-Res to 7Q, but some users are reporting that the 7Q Pro-Res image is still slightly crushed / different than the internal image. Can someone confirm this?

It's nice to put the V-Mount on the back, but not worth $2000 until the gamma issues with the 7Q are fixed (or are they fixed)? I don't have time to try it right now.
 
We've been very underwhelmed by the XDCA.

The RAW workflow (with the Odyssey 7Q) is great—if you want to shoot RAW. I shot some 2k and 4k RAW at a recent shoot, while simultaneously shooting internal XAVC-I. Because of the shadow banding we've found that the 2k RAW is actually inferior to the internal XAVC. The RAW is theoretically 12-bit while the internal is "only" 10-bit, but I haven't run into a situation where that becomes a problem. 2k RAW is required to shoot 240fps, for those times when 180fps just isn't fast enough.

The 4k RAW is beautiful; storing the 4k RAW files is not. I've been exceptionally happy with the XAVC-I 4k (internal) on the FS7.

gene_can_sing is correct about the RAW>ProRes issue with the Odyssey. While the recent firmware issue dramatically improved the situation, it still doesn't match the internal slog3 colorspace. Fortunately, there is no clipping anymore, so the image is now very gradeable in post. However if you're looking to use a LUT for your grade, your image is going to look much more contrasty than you want.
 
External recording:

Raw out to a 7Q looks like absolute crap in the shadows. Ruined one of my shoots discovering this. Linear raw appears to be the culprit and we really need to have Sony address this by applying a log curve to the signal to give the shadows a chance to live.

Raw to Pro Res adds a ton of contrast and is nothing like slog 3 and currently is not fit for purpose. The latest I have heard on this from Convergent Design is they are looking into it but who knows when when/if it will be sorted.

Internal recording:

Pro Res is nice I guess, but only up to 30p in 4k, which makes it a bit pointless that it cannot make use of the framerates of the camera.

Ultimately the extension unit is good for balance and for using big batteries, but unless you need TC or genlock I wouldn't bother with either the XDCA or the 7Q as the raw output is seeming more and more like a dead end. Unless you want to buy mine, in which case they're brilliant and you should totes buy one! :)
 
The Tilta battery bracket is a cheaper and lighter way to get a V Lock on the back.

I can't get my head around why Sony bothered with ProRes - XAVC offers a modern 10 bit intra frame and it's a much newer and more efficient codec than ProRes.

I suppose there are the legacy FCP7 enterprise users to consider, but surely everyone else is better off with XAVC (AVC Intra.)
 
bengiles said:
The Tilta battery bracket is a cheaper and lighter way to get a V Lock on the back.

I can't get my head around why Sony bothered with ProRes - XAVC offers a modern 10 bit intra frame and it's a much newer and more efficient codec than ProRes.

I suppose there are the legacy FCP7 enterprise users to consider, but surely everyone else is better off with XAVC (AVC Intra.)
Click to expand...
Some people prefer the way that ProRes looks. And for many post facilities, there are numerous systems in place that all interact using ProRes files. There is a world beyond the basic NLE, one into which XAVC is not yet fully integrated..
 
Mitch, is there a way to test out the Cinema DNG files in my workflow. Mainly short form projects heavily composited with VFX.
Im interested in testing how Avid handles the first edit then conforming in Nuke Studio for compositing VFX. Some shots can be tracked in Nuke, or sent to PF Track. The exported camera data then gets imported into Maya (along with reference image sequence) then rendered with Arnold back to Nuke for compositing. Davinci and then Avid.

Thanks,

Chance

Thanks for everyone's response
 
Hey Mitch,

Any ETA on when the XDCA/ 7Q Pro-Res will finally match the internal CineEI image? It's closer, but no cigar yet. Would be nice to just throw the LC709a LUT on the 7Q 4K Pro-res and call it the day.

This is really important IMO.

Thanks
 
I will add that while the 7Q XDCA performance is disappointing so far, the jam sync timecode and good V-Mount integration has been nice.
 
Could someone share 4K, UHD, 1080p RAW files samples from FS7 captured to Odyssey? I'm hearing conflicting opinions about the quality of it. Is the problem with shadows banding happening only in 2K (O7Q conversion to 2K out of 4K signal?) ? Thanks!
 
gene_can_sing said:
I will add that while the 7Q XDCA performance is disappointing so far, the jam sync timecode and good V-Mount integration has been nice.
Click to expand...

Yep. I also find it's very good at stopping stacks of paper from flying away in the wind when you use it to weigh them down :)
 
chancenorris said:
Mitch, is there a way to test out the Cinema DNG files in my workflow. Mainly short form projects heavily composited with VFX.
Im interested in testing how Avid handles the first edit then conforming in Nuke Studio for compositing VFX. Some shots can be tracked in Nuke, or sent to PF Track. The exported camera data then gets imported into Maya (along with reference image sequence) then rendered with Arnold back to Nuke for compositing. Davinci and then Avid.

Thanks,

Chance

Thanks for everyone's response
Click to expand...
If you have access to an Odyssey7Q or 7Q+, then you can use it in demo mode to get Cinema DNG files. The only caveat is a watermark line that will be overlaid across the bottom third of the image. If you do not have access to an Odyssey then we could get you a few frames, or I'm sure some people here on this forum could provide a variety of files for you to test.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Hey Mitch,

Any ETA on when the XDCA/ 7Q Pro-Res will finally match the internal CineEI image? It's closer, but no cigar yet. Would be nice to just throw the LC709a LUT on the 7Q 4K Pro-res and call it the day.

This is really important IMO.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I do know that it is in the works. Please understand that we are working on this as well as numerous other projects, and it doesn't help that Sony considers what they are doing inside the FS7 to be "secret sauce" so we have to interpret to try to match.
 
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