Who's thinking about NOT upgrading

I'm a wait and see kind of guy. Sony consumer has a bad history of treating existing customers -- badly. I feel guilty that I bought the 100 for that reason.

I need a another camera so I can stop using DSLR as a B-cam. I would think the 700 would fit nicely with its younger brother. But it all depends on how they treat us 100 users when the new one comes out. If we stay kings (or as closely as Sony can muster in that), then adding a 700 isn't a terribly idea. Not for 4k, but because the sensor does have some nice upgrades for 1080p.
 
I don't think I'm going to upgrade. It doesn't offer enough of an incentive to step up from the fs100.

What I want from my next camera is 10-bit 4:2:2 minimum output with either RAW or slog capability.
 
paulcurtis said:
I would imagine that if the 1080p image is so detailed (being down sampled from 4k as it should, like the C300) then the 4K source might appear soft by comparison. I suspect most people will end up scaling that 4K to 1080p but benefit from the greater apparent dynamic range that scaling would yield. However having that dynamic range off camera in 1080 in the first place would be better for me.
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The photosite count of the sensor is not only 4k (4096×2160 = 8.8MP chip), it´s 11.6 MegaPixel.

That means there is oversampling going on even at 4k.
And when you do your math, you can see, that 11.6 MegaPixel are a – almost perfect – compensation for the Bayer pattern readout.

So (out on a limb mode on) I expect the 4k image of the 700 having the same quality as the HD material (out on a limb mode off).

Frank
 
Postmaster said:
The photosite count of the sensor is not only 4k (4096×2160 = 8.8MP chip), it´s 11.6 MegaPixel.

That means there is oversampling going on even at 4k.
And when you do your math, you can see, that 11.6 MegaPixel are a – almost perfect – compensation for the Bayer pattern readout.

So (out on a limb mode on) I expect the 4k image of the 700 having the same quality as the HD material (out on a limb mode off).

Frank
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Hope you're right, but Andy Shipsides says the extra pixels are for blanking regions and photo mode.

Is the sensor definitely 16:9? Same as the 100? He also mentioned that it was 4:3 which i'm not convinced about but there's a shot of the sensor in the F Stop review and it does make me wonder if it's a slightly different shape which would explain the extra pixels too

cheers
Paul
 
I see from the live chat that sony said they don't have a price or a date for the recorder. Not instilling much confidence there.

I see that Blackmagic and AJA are preparing recorders for the Canon 4K RAW C500 output, perhaps they can offer solutions for the FS as well.

So right now, on a real practical day to day level we have

- excellent slow mo
- slight improvement to 1080p
- slight improvement to highlights
- NDs

but that's it really.. None of this is quantified yet and also, i think we'd want to see what the 4K output might look like, some samples from sony before anyone bought into this

cheers
Paul
 
I just purchased an FS100 for doing Music Videos, Video EPK's and other promo work for bands. Most of my work will end up on youtube, and occasionally a music video ends up going to a cable station.. MTV, Fuse, etc.. Certainly don't need 4k for that, and the upgrade in image quality would most likely get lost by either youtube or the digital cable compression.

I think an important thing to remember as well is, these camera's aren't even really meant to compete with one another. Someone who can justify spending $5k on a camera body shouldn't magically raise their budget to 8 or 9k.. Just like an FS700 customer can't magically afford an F3 or a scarlet.. I think that's something too make sure we keep sight of as Sony keeps vomit obsoleteness all over our investments :)
 
FelixGER said:
- SDI Out
- Better built quality especially the handle and the side grip
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True but the SDI doesn't give any better output, bit more robust.

I have Calebs top handle which seems more flexible than the new sony one.

The side grip could be a very useful addition though

I'm really thinking about the aspects that you can't use 3rd party to enhance, more the basic internals.

cheers
Paul
 
I'm going to wait until they announce what the 4k options are going to look like for sure. Strange that they haven't leaked any of that info yet. Love the slo-mo, but not spending all the extra money just for that feature.
 
As I say it before - I'd like to get FS-700 and keep FS-100 as backup camera, but final decision will be taken place after I will see FS-700 price in B&H and other stores.. if it will be around $8000 - fine, but if it go up to something like $9990 .. i will think twice...
What I really like in FS-700 - is better resolution and details, autofocus, ND-filters and some little improvements in the body... 4K 12bit RAW option is cool, but I will take it only if my new clients gonna "pay" for it... Most of my clients today don't really need it and not gonna use it anyway :)
 
robmneilson said:
I'm going to wait until they announce what the 4k options are going to look like for sure. Strange that they haven't leaked any of that info yet. Love the slo-mo, but not spending all the extra money just for that feature.
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From what I've read, Sony hasn't finalized the design of the 4K recording device, so there's no info to release.
 
Game just got more interesting... In case you haven't seen yet. Canon has just announced a 4K dslr, able to shoot 4k jpg motion in 4:2:2 to CF cards, making recorder unnecessary....
I didn't expect that.

I smell leavers... if you don't need slow mo, there's no reason to buy the FS700. But ok... let's wait and see what the 1D-C has to offer really.
The EOS-1D C’s full-frame 24 x 36mm 18.1-megapixel Canon CMOS sensor makes possible a wide range of creative imaging expression, such as image-blur effects.
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The camera’s ability to record 8-bit 4:2:2 4K and 8-bit 4:2:0 Full HD video to CF cards eliminates the need for an external recorder and enables workflows with increased mobility. If desired, however, captured video (excluding 4K video) can be output from the camera’s HDMI terminal to an external recorder using an uncompressed YCbCr 8-bit 4:2:2 signal.
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Price point: 15.000 dollars... with instant 4K and no need for external recorder.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/12/canon-c500-eos-1d-c-4k/

C500:

Both of these modes offer 10-bit 4:4:4 at 60 frames-per-second. There's also a half-RAW option, at 4096 x 1080 or 3840 x 1080 resolutions, also 10-bit 4:4:4, but at 120 fps. The C500 also includes dual CF slots, but that recording option is only available for 1080p (which can be captured to CF concurrently). Both cameras support Canon Log Gamma, empowering colorists to correct color in post production with more versatility by capturing additional information and a higher dynamic range.
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I'm staying with the FS100 seeing as though I only just purchased it second hand... plus loads of FS100's will be on ebay soon judging by the repsonse to the FS700, which means a cheap FS100 B camera can by purchased soon!
 
legrevedotcom said:
Game just got more interesting... In case you haven't seen yet. Canon has just announced a 4K dslr, able to shoot 4k jpg motion in 4:2:2 to CF cards, making recorder unnecessary....
I didn't expect that.

I smell leavers... if you don't need slow mo, there's no reason to buy the FS700. But ok... let's wait and see what the 1D-C has to offer really.




Price point: 15.000 dollars... with instant 4K and no need for external recorder.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/12/canon-c500-eos-1d-c-4k/

C500:
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4K only in S35 crop mode, and only at 24p...boooooooo!
 
vanvideo said:
From what I've read, Sony hasn't finalized the design of the 4K recording device, so there's no info to release.
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Which is very convenient for Sony... I foresee that they want people to go buy the FS700 on account of its nice specc, and then come in 6 months and say "Oh btw... the upgrade is 5k and the recorder is 5k, but please enjoy you new 18k camera".
 
paulcurtis said:
So we being amazing at getting 4K at all and you're complaining that it's *only* in S35 mode not vista vision sized!! :)

(tongue firmly in cheek)

cheers
Paul
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DAMN RIGHT! Actually no, I'd rather have the S35 crop mode since none of my wide lenses could cover FF. But at least break a piece off for the common folks and give us at least 60p slow mo in 4k!
 
legrevedotcom said:
Which is very convenient for Sony... I foresee that they want people to go buy the FS700 on account of its nice specc, and then come in 6 months and say "Oh btw... the upgrade is 5k and the recorder is 5k, but please enjoy you new 18k camera".
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That would suck, but considering the other options for 4 or 5k at this time, and it's not out of line with the pricing. But I'm hoping that they will give a free firmware update (after learning their lesson from the SLOG fiasco) and just charging an exorbitant price (3-5k) for their recorder.
 
Anyone looking to part ways with their current FS100 PM me and I'll take it off your hands for a reasonable price. I'd love to get the FS700, but I thinks it's going to be a bit more than I'm looking to spend.
 
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