who shoots w/naked fs100 -no rails/rigging/matte box/monitor?

R

robfilms

Veteran
who shoots w/ naked fs100 -no rails/rigging/matte box/monitor?

anyone shoot w/the fs100 but NOT rigged out?

i'm drawn to the image the fs100 produces but not the big/busy-ness of the rigging.

i often work on docs w/non-professional talent, folks who might not be english speaking and have never ever been filmed.

it has been my experience that a big rig intimidates these folks who step before my cameras.

anyone shoot with "just" a fs100 and adapter/lens attached?

is the feeling that an adapter and 35mm film lens will put too much strain on the fs100 lens mount?

if the rigging is due to the need for nd filters, much of my work is in interior locations.

but for exteriors, i was also thinking along the lines of a cokin p nd holder rather than the variable nd i have read on these threads.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/14452-REG/Cokin_CP153_P153_Gray_Neutral_Density.html

lastly, can you catch focus using the fs100 lcd/evf or is an external monitor a must?

i know i have plenty of questions that i perhaps should have posted separately so to re-cap:

-anyone shoot with a "naked" fs100-no rigging?

-anyone use the cokin p screw-in filter system for their nds?

-anyone find focus quickly and on a regular basis "just" using the fs100 lcd/evf?

as always, thanks in advance to those who care to share.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
 
Last edited:
I use it "naked" all the time, i dont have rails or a monitor. I use a faderND mkII for my nd and then my lenses are light enough that its not a problem. if you have any specific questions, shoot.
 
after having the full rig and leaving most of it in the bag I'm thinking of going this way too. I'll just add the erkey top plate + top rails to hang follow focus
 
eheath said:
I use it "naked" all the time, i dont have rails or a monitor. I use a faderND mkII for my nd and then my lenses are light enough that its not a problem. if you have any specific questions, shoot.
Click to expand...

evan-

thanks for the quick reply.

so for all of the above primes and lovely constant aperture zooms, you use no other rigging on your fs100, right?

if i may ask, why no rigging?

everybody else seems to really rig out their fs100.

cost? shooting style? other?

do you use a series of step-up/down rings so your light craft fader can fit all of your lens.

is that a real bother mid-shoot?

please share with me your focusing experiences/procedure?

i know each of us have different types of productions so i'm sure that plays a role in how we each find focus but i'm interested in how shooters work with the fs100.

i have been using the bogen 503 (non hdv) tripod on my previous cameras.

your 501hdv has no trouble balancing the fs100?

lastly, perhaps within your responses, you can also share the types of productions you have used the fs100?

thanks in advance for spending a moment to inform others of your experience.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
 
robfilms said:
who shoots w/ naked fs100 -no rails/rigging/matte box/monitor?

anyone shoot w/the fs100 but NOT rigged out?

i'm drawn to the image the fs100 produces but not the big/busy-ness of the rigging.

i often work on docs w/non-professional talent, folks who might not be english speaking and have never ever been filmed.

it has been my experience that a big rig intimidates these folks who step before my cameras.

anyone shoot with "just" a fs100 and adapter/lens attached?

is the feeling that an adapter and 35mm film lens will put too much strain on the fs100 lens mount?

if the rigging is due to the need for nd filters, much of my work is in interior locations.

but for exteriors, i was also thinking along the lines of a cokin p nd holder rather than the variable nd i have read on these threads.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/14452-REG/Cokin_CP153_P153_Gray_Neutral_Density.html

lastly, can you catch focus using the fs100 lcd/evf or is an external monitor a must?

i know i have plenty of questions that i perhaps should have posted separately so to re-cap:

-anyone shoot with a "naked" fs100-no rigging?

-anyone use the cokin p screw-in filter system for their nds?

-anyone find focus quickly and on a regular basis "just" using the fs100 lcd/evf?

as always, thanks in advance to those who care to share.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
Click to expand...

Rob,

Not only do I shoot without rigging, but in fact I have not shot anything with my FS100 that DID have rigging.
Everything I have shot has been done with either the kit lens and Heliopan filter, or Canon FD lenses with adapter
and Heliopan filter. The built in screen is quite good. You can certainly get focus with it without problems,
especially with the expanded focus and peaking. External screens would be nice, as they are bigger, and
would help deal with the 'higher angle' shots, but the built in screen will get you by just fine. As for
35mm lenses putting too much strain on the camera lens mount, I think that depends on which lenses you are using.
A big 70-200 2.8 would probably need support. A 17-50, 50-150 or 24-70 zooms or pretty much any prime
probably don't need supports. I'd rather err on the side of caution, so when I need the 200mm end of a lens,
I just use the 'kit' lens as I don't have support rigging for a big 70-200 lens. I have not used the Coken
screw in filter solution, instead choosing to go with the Heliopan and the Xume quick release adapters for
the lenses. My set up works just great for quick doc style shooting....and the images are just amazing,
so I'm happy.
 
robfilms said:
evan-

thanks for the quick reply.

so for all of the above primes and lovely constant aperture zooms, you use no other rigging on your fs100, right?

if i may ask, why no rigging?

everybody else seems to really rig out their fs100.

cost? shooting style? other?

do you use a series of step-up/down rings so your light craft fader can fit all of your lens.

is that a real bother mid-shoot?

please share with me your focusing experiences/procedure?

i know each of us have different types of productions so i'm sure that plays a role in how we each find focus but i'm interested in how shooters work with the fs100.

i have been using the bogen 503 (non hdv) tripod on my previous cameras.

your 501hdv has no trouble balancing the fs100?

lastly, perhaps within your responses, you can also share the types of productions you have used the fs100?

thanks in advance for spending a moment to inform others of your experience.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
Click to expand...

yes, no rigging for any of my lenses. im consider getting a 100-300 for long ass stuff and im gonna get a lens support system

i dont have a rig probably mostly because of cost. also, i film alot of skiing so portability is very important to me too.

yes i have a few different step rings and my ND is 77mm it can be a problem but im never in a rush so its not a big deal to me, i know a company makes a magnetic system for filters and im highly considering buying it, i know some guys on here have it

my 501hdv is fine, works great really, the fs100 has so many mount points that its easy to rig up. for focusing most of my shallow DOF stuff is on a tripod, if im hand head im usually going for a deep DOF

so far ive just made a few fun videos and did a couple shooting jobs. I did hand held shooting for like 6-7 hrs one night, all on one battery using a 50mm 1.4 and tokina 11-16 and it worked out great. i like turning my sony handle vertical (90 degree angle up from the body) and its pretty easy to grip that handle and then focus with the other hand.

hope that helps
 
Hey I like smalltalk productions. Good name!

the simple answer here is ofcourse you can. and you have good reasons. the gear needs to follow the train of thought- eh? you get it the other way around and you have what we see going on since the 5DII came out: DP's that design camera "rigs" not lighting set ups. Now I'm as guilty as anyone - cause I love kit and but also because I hate to be embarrassed. When working I feel unprepared when using a kit where I have to recombobulate the camera to do something that should be fast and simple. I gotta laugh when I see the profile on many rigs sold today - they look like the profile of a steam ship at sea with derricks and loading cranes all over the decks! What a mess- as a pro can you imagine getting thru a real working day with a "thing" like that?

So I see where you are coming from but I dislike the FS100 bare. I think a camera needs minimal things to work as a real picture tool. Number one a strong handle, I cant use a camera like a loaf of bread. I solved this problem below. A viewfinder. I'm working on this this month, but a 5" Marshall monitor is a dang good substitute for me. After using this for a while - I cringe when forced to use the Sony flip out. That said the expanded focus button (ala the EX series) is a big help with focus. I just like seeing my shot not squinting and guessing. lastly you need a grip which Sony put in the wrong place. I have a work around for this below and should have a nice fix (for all cameras coming soon, with electro trigger)

I work alot with real people too and I see it differently. I want to have a big cam. people are hip and expect a pro rig to be "cool".
With a 5DII one lady once said "oh so this is going to be like class picture day" (that hurt the pride!). My recipe is let the camera awe them a bit, they respect things as "real" that way and you meet expectations from the get go. the trick is then to disarm them with being calm and casual with them - so they realize "hey he's having fun. I can too"

thats the pyschology I see. the rest is mechanics and I want a camera that works. handle, viewer/monitor and a grip.

cheers, nice chatting, I mean small talking ;)
 
Anyone who builds extreme rigs has the job(s) or the money to back it up. You use the equipment you need for the type of job you're doing.

Need follow focus? Then you need rails or you can try Dfocus systems.
Need to mount heavier lenses? Some kind of support is recommended.
Don't trust your LCD or VF and seeing problems with focus/exposure/etc when playing back your footage later on? Buy an HD field monitor and use the tools in it to monitor your shots better.
Shooting indoors 99% of the time? You don't need a filter. And for that 1%, buy a cheap one.
Always using your camera on a tripod and never running and gunning? Forget about the shoulder support (although I think it's absolutely necessary for handheld use).

ETC, ETC.

Personally, I think monitoring focus with the camera is great. The cokin filters are good, but you will need different ones for various lighting situations. Stepping up or down always has the possibility of introducing vignetting with different lenses.

The more you work and learn and experience, you'll know exactly what you want, need and how to use it.
 
The only thing I always add is some sort of handle. The included handle I did not like. I use some Berkey parts specifically for the FS100 and I really like them.
 
For me, it's not a fashion show like I see all the time. Every feature of the camera should somehow contribute to the end product. With accessories, it has traditionally been very function driven in the film world that I come from. As the cameras hav shrunk, the accessories grew into a "pimp my camera" situation to the point where many people buy them and struggle with the configuration without ever asking themselves - is all this crap helping or does it simply make me look cooler in the production stills on my website? With the FS100 specifically, I only worked with it "naked" for the sole purpose of understanding what it needs so I could make those things. This seems to be what drove Caleb to make a handle - he needed it and no one was making it the way he wanted it. The images will never know if you had the latest bad-ass signature series baseplate on the bottom with plutonium reactor on the back of it. Camera+lens=pictures.

The choice of accessories and how they are used is as personal as your underwear. If you have carefully considered what you need to get more shots or better shots for the way you specifically work, buy that. My customers never paid more for cooler accessory package - they pay for the final product. If you are having trouble with flares - a mattebox may help. Shooting doc style, a top handle and shoulder rig can be very helpful. These rigs do not guarantee success, they merely push you in the direction of success. All of these things have gravity and take time to configure. At a certain point, the potential benefits turn into all new problems. Then you are back to where you started, only less money in your pocket.

Keep in mind, I am a manufacturer and make my living solely off the proceeds of that effort. I am/was a filmaker first. The last 20 years I have been shooting professionally with just about every camera and every environment. I really try to share my hard earned wisdom for what it is worth. Good luck -
 
alaskacameradude said:
Rob,

Not only do I shoot without rigging, but in fact I have not shot anything with my FS100 that DID have rigging.
Everything I have shot has been done with either the kit lens and Heliopan filter, or Canon FD lenses with adapter
and Heliopan filter. The built in screen is quite good. You can certainly get focus with it without problems,
especially with the expanded focus and peaking. External screens would be nice, as they are bigger, and
would help deal with the 'higher angle' shots, but the built in screen will get you by just fine. As for
35mm lenses putting too much strain on the camera lens mount, I think that depends on which lenses you are using.
A big 70-200 2.8 would probably need support. A 17-50, 50-150 or 24-70 zooms or pretty much any prime
probably don't need supports. I'd rather err on the side of caution, so when I need the 200mm end of a lens,
I just use the 'kit' lens as I don't have support rigging for a big 70-200 lens. I have not used the Coken
screw in filter solution, instead choosing to go with the Heliopan and the Xume quick release adapters for
the lenses. My set up works just great for quick doc style shooting....and the images are just amazing,
so I'm happy.
Click to expand...

gabe-

thanks for the reply.

i have read several of your threads and watched most of your posted videos so thank you for taking the time to pass on your experiences.

i'm encouraged that i'm not the only person thinking about naked fs100s.

without a follow focus system, how have you managed to get your lens in focus?

is it something like:

"a slow, half turn of the lens, a notch more, hit expanded focus, and a bit more...there its in focus!"

are you mostly on sticks when u shoot?

if so, what tripod?

if not, how are you holding the fs100?

i've read that some folks are disappointed in the build/design of the top handle.

how do you handle the top handle?

in general how is the build quality of the fs100?

how do you deal with only one slot for sd card?

i know you really like the image the fs100 produces.

aside from nd. what don't you like about the fs100?

again, thanks gabe.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
 
plasticam said:
Hey I like smalltalk productions. Good name!

the simple answer here is ofcourse you can. and you have good reasons. the gear needs to follow the train of thought- eh? you get it the other way around and you have what we see going on since the 5DII came out: DP's that design camera "rigs" not lighting set ups. Now I'm as guilty as anyone - cause I love kit and but also because I hate to be embarrassed. When working I feel unprepared when using a kit where I have to recombobulate the camera to do something that should be fast and simple. I gotta laugh when I see the profile on many rigs sold today - they look like the profile of a steam ship at sea with derricks and loading cranes all over the decks! What a mess- as a pro can you imagine getting thru a real working day with a "thing" like that?

So I see where you are coming from but I dislike the FS100 bare. I think a camera needs minimal things to work as a real picture tool. Number one a strong handle, I cant use a camera like a loaf of bread. I solved this problem below. A viewfinder. I'm working on this this month, but a 5" Marshall monitor is a dang good substitute for me. After using this for a while - I cringe when forced to use the Sony flip out. That said the expanded focus button (ala the EX series) is a big help with focus. I just like seeing my shot not squinting and guessing. lastly you need a grip which Sony put in the wrong place. I have a work around for this below and should have a nice fix (for all cameras coming soon, with electro trigger)

I work alot with real people too and I see it differently. I want to have a big cam. people are hip and expect a pro rig to be "cool".
With a 5DII one lady once said "oh so this is going to be like class picture day" (that hurt the pride!). My recipe is let the camera awe them a bit, they respect things as "real" that way and you meet expectations from the get go. the trick is then to disarm them with being calm and casual with them - so they realize "hey he's having fun. I can too"

thats the pyschology I see. the rest is mechanics and I want a camera that works. handle, viewer/monitor and a grip.

cheers, nice chatting, I mean small talking ;)
Click to expand...

caleb-

i have been following the progress of your handiwork and the handle does indeed look gorgeous.

thank for the props to "smalltalk", it is indeed what i try to create on camera.

i appreciate your thoughts as to rigging out the fs100.

my questions were less about if was "okay" not to rig out the fs100 to a degree but whether others who have worked with the camera thought it essential.

by the other responses to this thread, i do have some additional insights.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
 
NorBro said:
Anyone who builds extreme rigs has the job(s) or the money to back it up. You use the equipment you need for the type of job you're doing.

Need follow focus? Then you need rails or you can try Dfocus systems.
Need to mount heavier lenses? Some kind of support is recommended.
Don't trust your LCD or VF and seeing problems with focus/exposure/etc when playing back your footage later on? Buy an HD field monitor and use the tools in it to monitor your shots better.
Shooting indoors 99% of the time? You don't need a filter. And for that 1%, buy a cheap one.
Always using your camera on a tripod and never running and gunning? Forget about the shoulder support (although I think it's absolutely necessary for handheld use).

ETC, ETC.

Personally, I think monitoring focus with the camera is great. The cokin filters are good, but you will need different ones for various lighting situations. Stepping up or down always has the possibility of introducing vignetting with different lenses.

The more you work and learn and experience, you'll know exactly what you want, need and how to use it.
Click to expand...

norbro-

thanks for the thoughts.

you made some dead-on observations.

what type of productions have you used with your fs100?

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
 
My FS is on a monster rig, took it off the other day and its so light by its self

But rigging is not for fun

The monitor is in such a position that it cannot be used on the shoulder in any way without an external mon

Its an S35 sensor too so which puts pressure on your ability to focus, generally demanding a higher res monitor too

Add a monitor and it needs powering and the game begins, where to hang the batts?

An thats before you even start talking about supporting heavy glass

Now I have a mate how shoots with a sony z1 for the beeb.. another non shoulder camera.. that I would want to dress up

He either uses sticks or cradles the camera like a babe in arms

Basically he has developed a method of shooting that doesnt require a rig but restricts the shots he can do (no on the shoulder interviews) but it works for him

Now in any shooting we restrict the shots we can do (unless we bring a techno crane to every job)

It is therefore up to each individual user to make trade offs appropriate to their needs

Personally I have not found the FS to really work on a small rig but it works on a bigger one and a bigger one is still smaller than a typical ENG camera

S
 
robfilms said:
gabe-

thanks for the reply.

i have read several of your threads and watched most of your posted videos so thank you for taking the time to pass on your experiences.

i'm encouraged that i'm not the only person thinking about naked fs100s.

without a follow focus system, how have you managed to get your lens in focus?

is it something like:

"a slow, half turn of the lens, a notch more, hit expanded focus, and a bit more...there its in focus!"

are you mostly on sticks when u shoot?

if so, what tripod?

if not, how are you holding the fs100?

i've read that some folks are disappointed in the build/design of the top handle.

how do you handle the top handle?

in general how is the build quality of the fs100?

how do you deal with only one slot for sd card?

i know you really like the image the fs100 produces.

aside from nd. what don't you like about the fs100?

again, thanks gabe.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions
Click to expand...

Rob,

Ok, I'm going to do my best to answer you here.

Focusing. Usually, if I am doing a 'talking head' shot with no focus pulls, I will just set up the shot, use expanded focus to make SURE I
have good focus on the person and have the BG blurred, and then roll. If I am going to be 'pulling' focus with moving subjects, really, the
stock viewfinder seems to work fine for me almost all the time. If I need a little help, I might turn on the 'peaking' function. I may
spot check it with expanded focus after I pull focus just to make sure I nailed it. Really though it's that EX 3 screen so it's about as
good as it gets for a built in one. The FD lenses have a MUCH bigger focus 'throw' than the kit lens, but I have been able to deal with all
of them without a follow focus. My first experience shooting video was news, so 'eyeballing' focus pulls quickly is something I am used to.
Granted it used to be with 2/3 chip shoulder mount cams, but the idea is the same. So mostly I can actually pull focus without using
the expanded focus or peaking at all....just practice it a few times, it's not that bad. All lenses are different, so it will
depend on how long the focus 'throw' is, the longer it is, the more you may want a follow focus (as it's hard to turn the focus
ring three times around without bumping the shot a little.)

The tripod I usually use is just a cheap Libec 22 or whatever the model number is. It's got a ball leveling head and mid level spreader
which I like but I need to upgrade the tripod. I shoot a lot on the tripod, but a decent amount of handheld. I tilt the stock handle
90 degrees, straight up and down and use the other hand to focus on the lens. It works pretty decent for non overhead shots.
For low angle (ankle height) shots I will use the top handle. Again it's not perfect but works pretty decent. The top handle
on mine seems to be pretty sturdy. The side handle a little less so. Both of them work decent though, with the smaller lenses.
I think once you put more weight on, not only do you need the rail support, but you need a more sturdy handle. So it depends
on how you are shooting. But with the kit lens and a fast prime, you can get both shallow depth of field and run and gun stuff
and not NEED more than what the camera comes with.

Build quality is ok. Not the best, but not as bad as I've heard some people say. It reminds me a lot of the Panasonic HMC 150.
Lots of plastic but feels like sturdy plastic if you know what I mean. Buttons a little small, but usable. A lot of little
things could be done to improve the ergonomics in my opinion, but nothing is just absolutely horrid, well the LCD screen
placement sucks for overhead shooting, but other than that, there's minor annoyances like with most cams.

One card slot is ok for me, maybe not for others. I have 3 16 gig cards (90 minutes each) and 1 8 gig (45 minutes). You could
get a 32 gig card and record 3 hours on it if you wanted, or maybe even a 64 gig card. There is also a $500 rebate on
getting the attachable hard drive unit right now.

My biggest gripe is the lack of ND. I get around that with the absolutely GREAT Heliopan variable ND.
Other little things are....I wish you could dial the gain like you can the white balance temp. Instead you have to go in the
menus and set three gain settings (H, M, L) But the gain is so clean, you can go up to like 18db without seeing much grain.
So at night you might want your gain settings to be 3, 9, 18. But then in the day you might want them to be 0, 3, 6.
You have to go into the menu to change that. With shallow flange, the sensor is exposed while changing lenses....you can
get some dust on it if you aren't careful. I wish there were more E mount lenses that could communicate with the camera,
or that the A mount adapter gave you smooth iris control. I wish it was made like the PD 150. I wish more NLE's would
use the 1080 60P video it can shoot. I mean like most cameras it has it's share of annoyances...to me the big one
is no ND. There is no HD SDI which again is not a big deal to me as I don't do shoots where I have a director or
a 'video village'. I did do one shoot where I needed to run a 75 foot line to a 42 inch HD screen in another room
(clients watching a focus group giving opinions on their products) and a locking 75 foot HDMI cable worked great.
But, all in all, it's a pretty good camera......different, but good. Any other questions, just let me know.
 
NorBro said:
the gain control dialing would have been amazing
Click to expand...

Especially on this camera. The gain can 'almost' be used as an extension of the iris that doesn't affect depth of field. That's because even
when you gain up.....you don't really see any noise! So I actually use the different gain settings on this camera more than any camera I have
ever used in my life.....and I've used a lot of cameras. Used to be, that you might gain up to 3 or 6 but no more. On this camera those rules
go out the window. I always stay on the lowest gain I can get away with (old habit) but you find yourself using different gain settings MUCH
more on this camera. So the gain control dialing would be big. I'm hoping for the upcoming firmware update to include that....we'll see.
 
plasticam said:
I gotta laugh when I see the profile on many rigs sold today - they look like the profile of a steam ship at sea with derricks and loading cranes all over the decks! What a mess- as a pro can you imagine getting thru a real working day with a "thing" like that?
Click to expand...

LOL :cheesy:

Yeah, I have probably one of the biggest "steam ships" out there, and I love it, cause it´s still lighter less bulky and more versatile than the ENG cameras I used to hulk around for years.

But I don´t use it all the time.
One of the things I really love on the FS100 is the modular approach.
You set it up in a way the job calls for it.

Stealth shooting in a subway - strip it down to the bare bones and the size of a Hasselblad.

Narrative production - just add all the balls and whistles to the exo-skelleton.

And anything in between. That´s the beauty of this beast IMHO.
No reason to get religious about any setup.

And no offense here Caleb, but if you look at REDs and Alexas or even film cameras on any pro set, they look like an steam punk octopus, with a ton of cables and converter boxes and transmitters and monitors and arms and batteries andwhatnot bolted on them.

So yeah, any pro can absolutely imagine, getting thru a real working day with a "thing" like that, cause they do it all the time.
Only ENG cameras used to be rather self contained and "clean".

Frank
 
Last edited:
what I find is 'anything in between' does not work

I have a small HD monitor

If you leave batts on the monitor the rig becomes too front heavy

I tried a small config with a Z1 batter running the mounito but mounted just behind the cam

This still did not produce enough counter weight

Using Vlock at the rear gives oodles of power and great shoulder style

i would either use that, or the camera completely naked apart from the 'loupe' which I have cut down to turn into a mini sunshade

S
 
I need to be handheld and very mobile a lot, so I shoot "naked" (except for a vari ND) most of the time. (I swap the ND when I swap lenses, but I use the kit lens frequently). I highly recommend searching this forum for the eyepiece mod, without it the eyepiece is unwieldy. I've missed a few shots from focus issues, so that's the trade off I'm willing to accept.

I like the idea of getting the hand grip lower. I may start using rails if I can find a way to mount the grip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top