Who has tried EasyRig + Kenyon Gyros for boat shooting?

puredrifting

puredrifting

Major Contributor
We shot a considerable amount of footage from boats last year for a long term documentary we are producing, learning that anything but a wide angle FOV on boats on the open ocean produces a surprisingly small amount of usable footage because the the boat rolling in the swells, even on calm days. The size and length of the boat matters as well. We are shooting Outrigger Paddle boats at distances that average from 20' to 200' away. Of course, the narrower FOV, the more the rolling and surging of the boat we are standing on is emphasized in the picture.

I had a conversation with the inventor of the Perfect Horizon System http://www.perfect-horizon.com/ and while it looks as if that system would be ideal for our documentary, the problem is to rent the system, batteries and the required set up technician adds up to about $2,500.00 per shooting day and on a low budget documentary, that's just not going to happen. We have between 7 and 9 races to shoot this upcoming season. We will have multiple Go Pros on each of our racers boats and we will be bringing out a drone for at least some of the races, the drone coverage is ideal but it really requires hand launching and catching, which we are working on but drones over open ocean is a bit of a challenge as well, not impossible but challenging for a variety of reasons. We really need an A camera on a chase boat most of the time, supplementing with Go Pro and drone footage.

Has anyone here had experience matching an easy rig with Kenyon Gyros attached to the bottom of the camera? I saw some YouTube videos of test footage and it looked very encouraging and we can rent a smaller EasyRig and the Kenyon Gyro for about $375.00 per day, much more affordable than the Perfect Horizon system and frankly much better for the camera op to have the ability to move around the chase boats and switch shooting sides quickly, depending on the attitude of the target boat. Our A camera is my C200 shooting Cinema RAW Light and we would probably be using the 18-135 STM IS and 70-200 2.8 IS II much of the time for coverage so not super heavy loads, although the Kenyon Gyro adds weight and you are tethered to the battery power supply. The nice part of our stories are although we need coverage of our racers during their races, we just need highlights, we don't need hours and hours of them racing so it gives us a chance to try to maximize the coverage e do shoot, making it as smooth as possible.

I was wondering, does anyone have experience in matching up an EasyRig with a C200 sized camera with the Keyon Gyro attached to the camera?
How quick are the EasyRigs to deploy?
How does the line from the EasyRig attach to a camera like the C200?
Would the Kenyon Gyro be a better solution that mounting the camera on a gimbal, then mounting the gimbal on the EasyRig?

Anyone have any tips, pointers or experience in shooting other boats from chase boats on the open ocean? I know in the Canon C200 promo film, they had a C200 on a gimbal with the gimbal floating on the Easy Rig to shoot the fishing boats? Has anyone done that? As you know, when shooting from small boats, there is not a lot of room to set down and stow equipment, our camera op will largely have to board the chase boat, put on the EasyRig and camera and wear the them for 2-3 hours straight. Adding the Gyro adds weight and fatigue, even with the EasyRig but it seems necessary to smooth out the swells and surging of the boat.

Tips, pointers, suggestions? We'll be shooting our racers from May until September in all kinds of ocean conditions, some days are glassy and some are a windy, white-capped mess with 6' swells
 
I'm not sure about your gyro questions.

- The easyrigs come in a backpack then it's just a matter of putting the top bar into the backpack part and you're ready to go. For getting on a boat, you'd probably lose the ER bag, have the camera operator strapped in with camera already attached.
- The ER terminates in a "U" type clamp, which would attach to the c200 top handle. Getting the U to open up can be fiddly and annoying. You need another person to attach it to the camera unless there's a raised surface for the camera to sit on which easily lets the operator attach it by themselves. I was on a shoot recently that used the ready rig, holding a MOVI PRO/BM UMP. I'm completely sold and would buy one over an ER. You can use it with a single bar instead of both if you're doing traditional shoulder hand held type work. Set up time is slightly longer but it's not insanely wide like those exoskeletons and doesn't go over your head like the ER, so check those out too.

If it's a longterm project, what about a movi/arm combo? Check out the Freefly Systems instagram page (unsure if link works). Their third video shows a Movi pro with Flowcine black arm. You can see how much work the arm is doing, along with the impressive results. This would give you a gimbal you could use frequently vs. renting and not owning gyros.

For another reference, here's a boat commerical I put together. The shot at 00:41 - 00:44 was from a Movi Pro/BM UMP on a long lens, somewhere in the 50-200mm range. The gimbal was set up on top of a combo stand. I did no post stabilizing and while it's pretty smooth, you can see some micro jitters (not a problem for me here).
 
I'd be very wary about using an easyrig on a boat, particularly if there's any kind of swell. The potential for the camera to swing away from you/smash you in the head is not insubstantial. The whole thing's just a big pendulum once you're setup with it.

Gimbals are remarkable for boat-to-boat shooting though. I've only used the single pistol-grip style units on the water though (which leaves a hand free to steady yourself on railings etc. - which is important).
 
Ultimately this is 'the job from hell'* and only a fool would do it on the cheap because the chances of dipped kit and unhappy client are high.

Im not sure about gyros today, certainly in 'smaller' situations - they may still play a role in high end motion cinamatography.

Id go for gimbal..

-handheld (not nice)

-on a bungee from some rigged scaff bar or suchlike (having a team of two can help.. one managing the swing of the gimbal the other pointing it with joystick )

-on a flowcine arm http://www.flowcine.com/black-and-accessories/98-the-black-arm.html


*and awesome fun too!
 
Some good feedback guys. Ultimately, me and my producing partner are the "clients", we're making this film and seeking our own financing. Good points about the relative safety and possible drowning of going overboard while using any rig. While I am dedicated to this project, I won't have much distribution success if I am dead, although my partner might? ;-) It is a logistical challenge and we are up against the factors we all run into constantly when making documentaries, there is the "right" way to do it (Perfect Horizon) and there are the less expensive ways to do it that are not "right". As far as shooting from any fixed position setup, whether a tripod, or bungees suspending from something, that is a challenge as we really need the flexibility of jumping from the port to the starboard side of the boat at any time. There are a lot of factors at play that could mean that our chase boat driver could or couldn't get the boat oriented to the one side the camera was rigged on. We cannot take up the back of the boat during the later races as our boat may have paddlers climbing aboard and jumping off during relay races.

Just based upon my experience, the ER seems like it would be a nightmare on the deck of a small boat. Am I correct that it would be impossible for the operator to crouch down to rest legs without taking the whole thing off? The results look good but the operation seems uncomfortable based upon the clips on their website. The whole thing when on the operators body is BIG, which would be a challenge in such a small space. If you were on a larger boat, might work fine but some of our chase boats will be quite small.

We have not tried just using a gimbal, that may be a realistic option. Another option could be to hire a grip PA whose sole job is to guide and steady the camera op while he is using the gimbal? and possible safety line the operator so that if balance it lost, he won't go overboard? I agree with Morgan and Grug, going overboard wearing any rig is a recipe for drowning, we need to avoid that as much as possible. My producing partner has a Ronin M, we may give that a test run with his Panasonic HPX-270. This is a 4K show and that camera is only a 1080 camera but it would be good enough to test and experiment to see if just a gimbal would give us a good enough result. Our footage doesn't need to be perfectly steady, it just needs to be steady enough to be usable.

I'd be curious as to what that Flowcine arm costs and what it could be rented for. The other issue is that we will be several different chase boats, not one for the series and most do not have enough fixed surfaces to mount something like this. None of the boats will be over 25' in length and many are smaller.

Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming, this is quite a puzzle to solve.
 
I used to be a commercial diver and avid sailor....I empathize with the difficulty you are going through here....there is no easy answer with this....however, if you had the capability of using a bigger boat, say a sport fisher type with a lift to house the inflatable on the upper deck, I would look at the concept of suspending the operator in a harness hanging from the dinghy lift and with a couple of extras handling and stabilizing him with handheld tethers in case of a big wave or sudden unusual swell which happens at sea constantly....this keeps him well inboard and the boat effectively moves around him....the reason sailors of old slept in hammocks...this will not remove all movement of course,but then the gimbal would do the rest....the easy rig just sounds dangerous....if a boat that size is not available, then this could of course not be done safely....the next suggestion would then be that you find someone with a sailboat....there is a way of calming a movement on a sailboat by a manouver called "hoving to" you can google the maneuver but what you essentially do is tack the sailboat slowly and back wind the jib, meaning you don't release from the side you've tacked from and once the boat slows down you lash the tiller or wheel over to turn the boat back to the tack you just came from...the sailboat slows down to about 1/2 a knot and becomes really still...you could then effortlessly shoot on a gimbal with good results I believe, though I've never actually done this, I have hove to in storms plenty to get some rest/sleep and it is very effective...anyway, feel free to pm me if either of these ideas sound possible to you....I would do either of these with no hesitation on the right boat...and anything around 28 to 30 ft or so would be plenty in size.
 
fboonzaier said:
I used to be a commercial diver and avid sailor....I empathize with the difficulty you are going through here....there is no easy answer with this....however, if you had the capability of using a bigger boat, say a sport fisher type with a lift to house the inflatable on the upper deck, I would look at the concept of suspending the operator in a harness hanging from the dinghy lift and with a couple of extras handling and stabilizing him with handheld tethers in case of a big wave or sudden unusual swell which happens at sea constantly....this keeps him well inboard and the boat effectively moves around him....the reason sailors of old slept in hammocks...this will not remove all movement of course,but then the gimbal would do the rest....the easy rig just sounds dangerous....if a boat that size is not available, then this could of course not be done safely....the next suggestion would then be that you find someone with a sailboat....there is a way of calming a movement on a sailboat by a manouver called "hoving to" you can google the maneuver but what you essentially do is tack the sailboat slowly and back wind the jib, meaning you don't release from the side you've tacked from and once the boat slows down you lash the tiller or wheel over to turn the boat back to the tack you just came from...the sailboat slows down to about 1/2 a knot and becomes really still...you could then effortlessly shoot on a gimbal with good results I believe, though I've never actually done this, I have hove to in storms plenty to get some rest/sleep and it is very effective...anyway, feel free to pm me if either of these ideas sound possible to you....I would do either of these with no hesitation on the right boat...and anything around 28 to 30 ft or so would be plenty in size.
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We have little control over the size of chase boat available, last season was pretty much people doing us favors and letting us tag along on their boats. Even if we raise the funds to hire the boat, it's hard to describe but in this type of racing, there could be 80-100 race boats out there in a pack and we need to get reasonably close to the one or two that our racers are on. Larger boats have larger wakes that can interfere with the actual racing so that doesn't work. It seems as if we can get closer to our racers with smaller boats as well, helpful for capturing better footage.

As far as a sailboat, that could never work, we need to constantly and quickly surge ahead of our racing boats, idle, and record them as they come past our chase boat. Definitely needs to be a fast power boat. Even though our race boats are paddle powered, these are top pros, you'd be amazed at how fast they can go when at full speed. Generally, we are not allowed to stay parallel with the race boats unless we are about 200' away from them because our wake can affect the racing boats. Or farther away so if we want shots from 10'-100' away, we have to surge ahead and wait for them to pass us, that's just the nature of the racing. If, during the racing season, our chase boat accidentally affects any of the races, we will undoutedly be banned from shooting any other on the water footage, period so we have to be really conservative and careful or we are screwed.
 
Understood...and as I typed, I suspected that you've probably exhausted most possibilities already...I'm going to do a little shoot in the Galapagos islands at 30 ft or so, but not just swimming around filming...shooting something mechanical, stationery and very specific...everything ocean related is a problem to be solved...I decided in this instance I'll take down a much heavier second weight belt and while kneeling on the bottom, lay it over my legs to anchor myself down a bit...in truth though till I'm actually there and doing it, no way of knowing whether I will land the shots I want or not!...the ocean is a challenge in every way...even drones come with their own host of issues, the most important of all perhaps just getting it back in the boat (and of course image quality) Anyway...your project sounds interesting, though very challenging...when you find your solution, please share here when you have a moment and best of luck!
 
puredrifting said:
Tips, pointers, suggestions? We'll be shooting our racers from May until September in all kinds of ocean conditions, some days are glassy and some are a windy, white-capped mess with 6' swells
Click to expand...

I'm also wary of going in the drink with an EasyRig. If you do make sure you have a safety line as sure as hell you don't want to try to stay afloat with that lot on. With Steadicam we always had quick release vests so your buddy with one pull on a rope could free you from the rig. Haven't seen that for EasyRig and that's what makes me a little nervous. After many years of shooting Kenyon on the water for the Navy I will always stipulate that that is the only rig I will run with in smallish boat with a medium to largish camera. Have a look at some posts from a few weeks back for more suggestions:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?358572-Tips-for-filming-on-a-boat

Also check out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3yW3wrGuuA

and what's involved using both an EasyRig and a Kenyon

https://vimeo.com/120505028

You can rent a small Kenyon from $550 a month

https://www.ken-lab.com/rentals.html

Chris Young
 
I'm curious of how just using the Kenyon Gyro, like a 4x4 would work on my C200? We can sometimes bring a lawn chair to sit on the deck, we tried monopods and tripods in the post and when the water was smooth, we would sometimes get some usable shots. On a different shoot, I shot shoulder mounted, crouching down and resting my arms on the gunnels and still have the same issues with the swells surging the boat back and forth. Most of the chase boats have low gunnels so it might be possible to rest the camera with the Kenyon on our knee/lap as we sit with the addition of a Cinebag or rest it on the gunnel itself using a Cinebag? The challenge is that we need to be able to move quickly and re-orient ourselves, depending on what's happening around us. The C200 with lens weighs perhaps 5-8lbs depending on lens and battery and the Kenyon 4X4 weights about 7lbs, I think? Plus we are then tethered to the Kenyon battery pack too which will limit our mobility. So too heavy to free hold or cradle, we would need to rest it on something. I am not sure if you can use the Kenyons while a camera is tripod mounted? Another issue I had before was the vibrations of the boats motor coming up throgh the tripod or monopod, resting on the deck, I ended up resting the tip of the monopod on a rubber flip flop, which helped to isolate it but was a PITA to deal with obviously as I moved around. I've tried several times to make this all work and so far, as I said, we have an incredibly low ratio of usable shots. So even if using the Kenyon only improves our shooting ratio 50%, that would be a lot better than what we captured last year.
 
For gyros to work the camera+gyros needs to by isolated from the boat/plane/whatever and free to move in all six axes.

Either on a bungee rig of some form or a complex (russian arm) type system.

On a bungee rig you need a human operator in contact with the system - like the easyrig setup.

Someone did use to make a kind of bungee cradle that could be hard mounted (not hung down)- the promo vid was it in the back of a car/truck

The easy rig setup is pretty good apart from being deadly if you go in the soup - Id hang the camera from some part of the boat.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
For gyros to work the camera+gyros needs to by isolated from the boat/plane/whatever and free to move in all six axes.

Either on a bungee rig of some form or a complex (russian arm) type system.

On a bungee rig you need a human operator in contact with the system - like the easyrig setup.

Someone did use to make a kind of bungee cradle that could be hard mounted (not hung down)- the promo vid was it in the back of a car/truck

The easy rig setup is pretty good apart from being deadly if you go in the soup - Id hang the camera from some part of the boat.

S
Click to expand...

Hmm...

Problem is, that at least some of the boats won't really have any uprights or flying bridge where one could hang such a rig. These are some small boats. Possibly even a Zodiac type setup for some of them.
 
Leading me back to the Tylermount Minigyro. Seems like the it would fit almost all of our criteria http://www.tylermount.com/minigyro.html other than $450.00 inc. battery. Might try the gyros alone as they are cheaper but the Tylermount has that nice strut that actually looks as if it would be perfect for the deck of our boats with low gunnels.
 
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I also spend a lot of time racing sailboats and occasionally am asked to shoot both stills and/or motion of important races. Some of the things I've learned is that the platform you're on is critical. If you can get one a catamaran is the most stable. There are lots of catamaran power boats in the 25' range out there these days. Bigger is even better. But the small ones provide stability and a large deck to move around on. They're also generally a little dryer then their monohull counterparts. Getting the most stable platform is light having great sticks under the right head and might come before the stabilizer thought understand you'll need stability as well.
 
I have an Easy-Rig but don't use it often. It is not designed for your application. It's biggest purpose is transferring weight from your shoulders and arms to your waist/torso. It does help when YOU are moving but not when the platform or deck is moving.
 
"Another issue I had before was the vibrations of the boats motor coming up throgh the tripod or monopod, resting on the deck, I ended up resting the tip of the monopod on a rubber flip flop, which helped to isolate it but was a PITA to deal with obviously as I moved around."

I researched this a couple of years ago and the best thing I came up with was a material called sorbothane. I use it for exactly the same thing. I generally use two pads together taped to the foot of each tripod leg. It's not magic but it does help.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CQ4FFY...t=&hvlocphy=9061306&hvtargid=pla-333437663245
 
If it's all boat to boat, and the easyrig is just to take strain off the operator, perhaps a hard mounted gimbal would work? Mount the gimbal to the boat somewhere with a good vantage point, perhaps 360deg, and operate remotely? Seems like that would achieve the same or better effect particularly at long distances and long lenses.

I've shot some fishing shows on boats in pretty rough water and on a super low budget the easiest way to get useable long lens footage was usually just to shoot with a good optically stabilized lens and at very high framerates, usually 240fps. Obviously that's a specific look but it sure takes the pressure off if your shot only has to be stable for a fraction of a second to get a good stable shot that's a few seconds long, this was mainly for b-roll though and shooting off the boat was only a low priority since we were set up to shoot most of the content on the boat.
 
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