White background?

D

dmitrizigany

Veteran
This weekend I might be shooting with my new FS700R for the first time (yay!). Since it's working in the same basic way as my EA50, that's not the worrying part however. The client wants a music video with white background, you know that kind of totally white.
I haven't done anything like that before, so not completely sure how to do it. My guess is that you have a white background and light it kinda like a green screen but you let it blow out and have the band in the foreground properly lit.
Any other ways to go about it? Or any pitfalls to look out for?
We're probably renting light, what kind would you get for a shoot light that? (Budget is limited)

thanks.
 
I did something like this two years ago:

http://vimeo.com/56068193

Obviously uber low budget (no budget). Learned a few things: You really need a lot of space to keep the lighting for the BG from affecting the foreground. When lighting white with the intention of blowing it out (yes, that is what you are going for, 100% white), you will use a lot of light and have a lot of bounce. Might need extra flaggage to control spill.

You also want good separation between the foreground and BG. Move your subject as far away from it as you can and still get the compositions you want. We did the video above in a garage, hence all the problems I mention. Also, with a green screen you're keying the background OUT, with white the intention is to leave it in, therefore, lighting it really super duper even is even more critical because you don't want it to look uneven on screen. I noticed some slightly less white spots in the corners in post on my video, so watch for that on set. Waveform/light meter/something will be critical here.

But yes, you are basically on the right track
 
Here's an example I did with a muslin backdrop :

Here's one that I did greenscreen:

I'm probably doing it wrong, but I found it more difficult to use the real backdrop vs the greenscreen with the equipment I have
 
My guess is that you have a white background and light it kinda like a green screen but you let it blow out and have the band in the foreground properly lit.
Click to expand...


Dont blow it out too much. Use a wfm to get it in control and what your camera (sensor) can handle.

Yes.. you need a white BG...maybe a sweep (cyc) if you want a horizon free look.

You need enough overhead soft lighting to illuminate the bg and the floor evenly.

Your subject lighting units can be what ever you want but I suggest fresnels and controls ( cutters, frames etc)
 
If you want a decent sized BG, like a cyc, and separation between the talent and the drop - you're going to need some lights up high, preferably on a ceiling grid.

Flos are great for this, too. Usually on fashion shoots with a white BG, we'll set up 8' high white foamcore and bounce from behind to light the backdrop. But that's a vertical set. If you want a decently wide horizontal set, you've got to get light in the center, so the ceiling's your best bet.

You **can** do this in a tighter space, where your talent's close to the drop. You can rig a 'wall' of diffusion behind the camera with stands & pipe, hang fabric, and blast light through it - you basically want the diffusion to become one huge panel light, like 20' wide by 10' high. (I've done big diffusion walls with fabric-store yardage, doesn't need to be real silks, look for something fairly opaque that still lets some light through). Your talent will cast shadows, but they'll be very diffuse. You can sort of "arc" the wall so it's closer to set on the left and right and still give you maneuvering room.
 
...Other than reducing the amount of work in post ( and being able to visualize the finished result as you shoot ), is there any advantage to shooting on white instead of green-screen ?
 
Personally I think the black/white done with green screen looks kind of phony vs having a real background. Something to do with the sacrifices you make when keying out a background (edge detail loss/blending issues). Just not the same, to me. Maybe if you're among the keying/compositing elite, but I know I'm not and would rather have the real thing, pain in the ass though it be.
 
Yes, now trying to convince the client to rent a proper studio with big enough white wall ready and a light guy. We'll see if they bite. I know I sold myself much too cheap (as always) so they should have some budget left ;)
 
TheDingo said:
...Other than reducing the amount of work in post ( and being able to visualize the finished result as you shoot ), is there any advantage to shooting on white instead of green-screen ?
Click to expand...


There are a few pros and cons.

Chroma screens need careful lighting for full length shots. (head to toe )
Chroma screens bounce light all around the set and subject

White BGS have a natural light wrap on subjects

White bgs need to be created / painted ..perfect finish ( ie expensive and fragile)


....
 
TheDingo said:
...Other than reducing the amount of work in post ( and being able to visualize the finished result as you shoot ), is there any advantage to shooting on white instead of green-screen ?
Click to expand...

"...reducing the amount of work in post"... you're not talking pushing a few buttons. You're talking hours for even a music video. If there are drums, chrome, etc... ack. If you're not shooting with something like a Red, at 2.5k or up, ouch. If you didn't put your fist down for wardrobe, if someone shows up in even a teal color... roto time. If your production designer can't live with limited colors, you've got a fight on your hands. Shooting with a DSLR or AVCHD? There goes your hair detail. Yeah, you can pull all those keys. If you don't do it right it'll look like it was keyed. And doing it right takes time, rendering time, etc., and a lot of experience with keylight (or insert tool of choice). If you don't REALLY have your lighting, shooting, keying and planning chops down, you'll have shots that just won't work.

For someone inexperienced with keying and motion tracking, for a youtube-level, "look I keyed this" deal, it might be fine. But the risk of it looking seriously cheeseball is very high if your team isn't skilled. And hell, you need just as big a set, just as big a wall/floor, and just as many - or even more - lights and lighting skills.

If you pull keys for a living all day, maybe so. But it's more than post time - it's planning, design, motion tracking - a completely, massively different project than "music video on white". Hate to sound negative, but man... makes my brain hurt! Let us know what ya come up with though!
 
It's really not all that hard to do. I did it in a tiny room in a prison, the results of which you can see briefly at the end of my demo reel (skip to 2:44 to see it)
https://vimeo.com/14755349
using an old bed sheet!

You will be able to see some flaws, namely, an underexposed face and a slight wrinkle in the sheet, but the interviewee was sitting literally less than 18" away from it and I only had three omni-lights. With more light on him, a sturdier backdrop, and some more distance, it would have been perfect. So the moral of the story is: you can do it. And yes, absolutely, if you know you want white, never use a green screen. They are actually a lot harder to light properly, and even if you do, the result will probably look off. I know because I have had to do this on clients' request before, and the results were definitely inferior.
 
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