Which progressiv framerates are best for 'DUAL USE' in ntsc and pal workflows?

R

reinholdus

Member
I am contemplating buying a HVX200 in Japan, due to the massive price gap between there and Europe, and because I love to visit Japan.

Best pricing googled for Europe so far was http://www.bilgi.de/produkte/kameras.html, 6000 € incl VAT for the ntsc version, 7000,- € incl. Vat for the pal version, and in Japan Kaku Ito's recommended pv-station.com, 3500,- €. (all prices not including any P2 cards)

((correction: the price after asking for discount is now running towards 5000,-€ including 1 4GB P2 card excluding tax , 29.03.06))

But i am still puzzled about the workflow and pal country usability. I will be shooting mainly landscape in 1080/30p, and for fast action, 720/60p; no film output intended whatsoever. A german magazine states the HVX200E (pal version) to have better resolution in (only) 1080/50i (actually compelling the HVR-Z1), if compared to the ntsc version tested before. This alone next to the ease of compatible framerates and workflows, would be a strong argument against buying a ntsc HVX. BUT, this has to be taking with some grain of salt.

The developing technological reviewing culture, which resembles (techno-) religious discourses (here with a naming 'klartext' http://www.technologyevangelist.com) is selling their products, technological enlightment, succesively in accordance to the marketing of their objects of desires; just shorter cycles and increased numbering separate the two. So, getting cut up in pieces by never ending tech-talking cures out of the printing press, or dissipated within the countless fractured information, the bits and pieces out of tech-forums and newsgroups findings, one is one time more and again thrown back to his own interpretation, his own (remote and over-sampling) sensing. So lets do it again, and address your other and your brother by asking, what makes sense to my questions and findings? In which existing workflow, software and progressive framerates, can I find double 'dual-use', a holiday between the cultures and a door to close/tunnel a technological standard gap between ntsc and pal cave walls projectors and projections.

So far the major problem I see with my limited understand of digital image processing, is that even the same progressive framerates are produced 'over' 50i or 60i.

So what does that difference stand for/mean? And therefore, can I get 1080/50i/25p and 720/50P/20 from 1080/60i/30p or 720/60/p/30P. Is 1080/30p or 720/60p usable in pal broadcasting, workflow? Is there software cross-gaping?

I guess, to understand, its all about bringing the difference between progressive scanning, interlaced raster and framerates, shutter speed and colour space pull down to an (easy) understanding. But I just don't get it! And, is there a feasible software cross-gaping?

And finally, can you recommend buying a ntsc for pal country use?


Thanks in advance for any enlightment, suggestions and corrections,
Reinhold
 
Last edited:
WOW!

I was in a similar situation. I needed the HVX for a job and just couldn't wait for the 'it's coming sometime PAL version'. I do a lot of work that has a worldwide audience so I really had to grapple with this question.

I bought the NTSC version. I use it in 24 frames all the time (except with cranking!). I now make 24fps DVDs for international release. When I need PAL I use cinema tools to make it 25fps as they are so close (this is done all the time). Soundtrack Pro then adjusts the audio pitch back to normal.

So whether shooting SD or HD I plan for a 23.98 timeline. My delivery formats are broadcast (PAL and NTSC), DVD (now 24fps) and WEB (24fps).
 
Hallo Reinhold, I feel somewhat the same. After shooting with a Sony PD 150 for 3 years (public Tv and other customers) I am very likely to switch to the HVX 200. But instead of getting confused and lost in the numbers I have rented the camera next week for two days and I will look at it with a post pro professional a good set of test charts, a good Barco monitor , shoot in the real world with rela people etc and that should bring some clarety. After all, the camera is for making films - not (only) discussions.
 
Thanks you all for your replies !

I found quite good pricing here in germany, which makes the trip to Japan seem odd if, you consider all the travel, import tax, warranty circumstances. The formentionend link to bilgi.de will be offering the HVX200 with a 4GB P2 Card for 5150,-.

Right now it seems to be, i will be willing trading off some stray dog days in tokyo and better slomo against better compatability for europe, better dvcpro50 resolution. (not really for the first one )

Anybody's aware off some further drwaback/gains to be considere in this NTSC/PAl juxtaposition? Thanks !!
 
Last edited:
reinholdus said:
Thanks you all for your replies !

I found quite good pricing here in germany, which makes the trip to Japan seem odd if, you consider all the travel, import tax, warranty circumstances. The formentionend link to bilgi.de will be offering the HVX200 with a 4GB P2 Card for 5150,-.

Right now it seems to be, i will be willing trading off some stray dog days in tokyo and better slomo against better compatability for europe, better dvcpro50 resolution. (not really for the first one )

Anybody's aware off some further drwaback/gains to be considere in this NTSC/PAl juxtaposition? Thanks !!
Click to expand...

There's no good solution to convert 60p to 50p yet. According to Graeme Natress, converting from 1080 50i to 1080 60i produces better results than from 60i to 50i. If you are working in 24P, there's no problem- the conversion is losless
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top