Erik Wittbusch
Well-known member
HI,
having my first thread started, I hope not to repeat questions again and again...
I am a documentary filmmaker and cameraman for industrial/image films located in germany.
I never owned a serious camera. Period.
I want one (not necessarily now) and I saved some money. I mostly worked with Sony EX1/3 or Panasonic HPX500 ENG-Style Cameras. For some shots I also used the Canon 5DII with dedicated Glas.
I want a camera that suits my needs for documentary work, what means a lot of handheld stuff and a not to big camera setup. Small and easy would fit best here. But I don't want that videoish look of the Sony EX1/3 with its small dynamic range and no shallow dof at all. I hope for a camera with a filmic look in hightlight handling especially as I am often confronted with different light situations with people standing in front of windows and in cars.
But I also want to use the camera for my paid industrial work, where shallow depth of field is often not wanted and sharpness means everything. Only for interviews a nice balanced picture with something like a 70 up to 85mm prime would be nice. Most of the times there is absolutely low light conditions and no time for setting up the big lights.
First, I thought about the FS100 - prices have fallen ( I can get one used but with full warranty for 3000€ with the kit lens!). Big Sensor - no DSLR flimsyness - amazing lowlight capabilities. The kitlens will be a no brainer for my run'n gun industrial work, where a lens change means a lot of bad things will hit the sensor and shallow depth of field is not neccessary. I had my hands on it and it didn't feel bad at all. Only the hightlight handling was a bit of a drawback for me...
Then, I was thinking if I could make it without ND-Filters and the boxy design, which isn't exactly what I think fits best for documentary (direct cinema style handheld).
The FS700 is a bit better - ND-Filters, better Grip with the advanced focus button and arri style rosette, cinegammas (!!) and the slomo option, which could come in handy for the technical work, I often do. But its a bit bigger and heavier and doubles in price (at least for me it would be at 6700 Euro new incl. Kitlens).
Both seem to be good cameras, but I really search for the ultimate filmic look in a small form factor for documentaries. I don't mind the size so much, when the camera is on Tripod (Industrial/Imagefilms). I have found some problems with the harsh highlighthandling of the FS cameras. But I never relly used these cameras myself, so can't really judge on it.
I still find the C300 to expensive. It's important for the industrial work, to have 1080/50p onboard (FS100/700), which the C300 hasn't. I also find the highly recommended formfactor a bit uninspiring. The big handle has to be always on camera, because theres all the sound and the display... But the picture can nicely be controlled with C-log and all the profiles in camera. Also the 50 MBit Codec seems to be a nice one, too.
Then, the F3 was brought to me. I never relly considered this "beast", as it was always out of range for me. But with the F5, the prices are falling extremely. I can have one for the same price as the FS700! Okay, it's been a demo camera for nearly 2 years with 240 hours, but there is still full warranty.
It is a huge and heavy thing when handheld, but managable for me (I hope!). But I need definitly some sort of zoom option like the Kitzoom on the FS's. The Sony Zoom for the F3 ist clearly way to expensive for me. I thought, I use some Canon 17-55/2,8 IS or 24-105/4 IS (which I'll have to buy) and my old 80-200/2,8. I also have a 17/2,8 Tokina for Canon EF.
But there is no easy Metabones Smart Adapter for the F3. Only the big MTF with the exteriour control box for iriscontrol, which is not an option for handheld work. Or the expensive Optitek solution (1650$!), which needs power from some battery.
I think I can't go with the FS100 anymore, even it is so unexpensive.
The FS700 isn't even perfect, but seems to fit my needs best. But only for more then double the price of the FS100...
Both would come with the kitlens and the Metabones adapter. Later I'll invest in the cheap Samyang cinelens kit for "serious" work. Maybe the 17-55/2,8 IS for handheld documentary style. I won't need a rig, as I find the FS100/700 handheld pressed with the back to my chest a nice way of filming. I will also have monopod with stabilization, hanging from my neck. I don't like shoulder work that much, but I will need it nevertheless here and there.
If never anybody had told me about the F3... which has a beautiful way of highlight handling and dynamic range even recorded internally. It seems as if the 14bit internal sensor-reading makes the big difference. The picture would fit me 100%, but with all the optional things like lenses, batteries, cards and adapters for my existing lenses, it's another price class. I like the stabilized Canon-Zooms a lot for my handheld work, but they would be an expensive option on the F3.
Any help appreciated...
having my first thread started, I hope not to repeat questions again and again...
I am a documentary filmmaker and cameraman for industrial/image films located in germany.
I never owned a serious camera. Period.
I want one (not necessarily now) and I saved some money. I mostly worked with Sony EX1/3 or Panasonic HPX500 ENG-Style Cameras. For some shots I also used the Canon 5DII with dedicated Glas.
I want a camera that suits my needs for documentary work, what means a lot of handheld stuff and a not to big camera setup. Small and easy would fit best here. But I don't want that videoish look of the Sony EX1/3 with its small dynamic range and no shallow dof at all. I hope for a camera with a filmic look in hightlight handling especially as I am often confronted with different light situations with people standing in front of windows and in cars.
But I also want to use the camera for my paid industrial work, where shallow depth of field is often not wanted and sharpness means everything. Only for interviews a nice balanced picture with something like a 70 up to 85mm prime would be nice. Most of the times there is absolutely low light conditions and no time for setting up the big lights.
First, I thought about the FS100 - prices have fallen ( I can get one used but with full warranty for 3000€ with the kit lens!). Big Sensor - no DSLR flimsyness - amazing lowlight capabilities. The kitlens will be a no brainer for my run'n gun industrial work, where a lens change means a lot of bad things will hit the sensor and shallow depth of field is not neccessary. I had my hands on it and it didn't feel bad at all. Only the hightlight handling was a bit of a drawback for me...
Then, I was thinking if I could make it without ND-Filters and the boxy design, which isn't exactly what I think fits best for documentary (direct cinema style handheld).
The FS700 is a bit better - ND-Filters, better Grip with the advanced focus button and arri style rosette, cinegammas (!!) and the slomo option, which could come in handy for the technical work, I often do. But its a bit bigger and heavier and doubles in price (at least for me it would be at 6700 Euro new incl. Kitlens).
Both seem to be good cameras, but I really search for the ultimate filmic look in a small form factor for documentaries. I don't mind the size so much, when the camera is on Tripod (Industrial/Imagefilms). I have found some problems with the harsh highlighthandling of the FS cameras. But I never relly used these cameras myself, so can't really judge on it.
I still find the C300 to expensive. It's important for the industrial work, to have 1080/50p onboard (FS100/700), which the C300 hasn't. I also find the highly recommended formfactor a bit uninspiring. The big handle has to be always on camera, because theres all the sound and the display... But the picture can nicely be controlled with C-log and all the profiles in camera. Also the 50 MBit Codec seems to be a nice one, too.
Then, the F3 was brought to me. I never relly considered this "beast", as it was always out of range for me. But with the F5, the prices are falling extremely. I can have one for the same price as the FS700! Okay, it's been a demo camera for nearly 2 years with 240 hours, but there is still full warranty.
It is a huge and heavy thing when handheld, but managable for me (I hope!). But I need definitly some sort of zoom option like the Kitzoom on the FS's. The Sony Zoom for the F3 ist clearly way to expensive for me. I thought, I use some Canon 17-55/2,8 IS or 24-105/4 IS (which I'll have to buy) and my old 80-200/2,8. I also have a 17/2,8 Tokina for Canon EF.
But there is no easy Metabones Smart Adapter for the F3. Only the big MTF with the exteriour control box for iriscontrol, which is not an option for handheld work. Or the expensive Optitek solution (1650$!), which needs power from some battery.
I think I can't go with the FS100 anymore, even it is so unexpensive.
The FS700 isn't even perfect, but seems to fit my needs best. But only for more then double the price of the FS100...
Both would come with the kitlens and the Metabones adapter. Later I'll invest in the cheap Samyang cinelens kit for "serious" work. Maybe the 17-55/2,8 IS for handheld documentary style. I won't need a rig, as I find the FS100/700 handheld pressed with the back to my chest a nice way of filming. I will also have monopod with stabilization, hanging from my neck. I don't like shoulder work that much, but I will need it nevertheless here and there.
If never anybody had told me about the F3... which has a beautiful way of highlight handling and dynamic range even recorded internally. It seems as if the 14bit internal sensor-reading makes the big difference. The picture would fit me 100%, but with all the optional things like lenses, batteries, cards and adapters for my existing lenses, it's another price class. I like the stabilized Canon-Zooms a lot for my handheld work, but they would be an expensive option on the F3.
Any help appreciated...
