Which of these represents the most significant leap forward?

EDV

EDV

Well-known member
In terms of technology, and more specifically, cinematic production. Taking into account sensor size, features, flexibility, workflow, and cinematic image quality.

S-VHS to DV ( ie. Sony VX2000 )

DV to HD ( ie. Panasonic HVX200a )

HD to S35 ( ie. Sony FS100 )

S35 to 4K or 5K ( ie. Red Epic )
 
I think the first major step towards creating a cinematic look came during the DV years when 24p was incorporated. Younger generations weaned on video games and high refresh rates may feel differently, but at the time, if you switched a camera between 60i and 24p it was "instant cinema".

HD was a big step foward especially if the material was to be projected. And large sensors were the next key to the kingdom (pre-empted by 35mm adaptors), as shallow depth of field contributed significantly; the lesser the camera's ability to resolve, the better it looks shallowed out.

I personally don't think that HD to 4K is a massive improvement to the cinematic look, in fact in can sometimes be a deterrent. Great for travelogues, tough on actors.

One factor that could be added to the list is dynamic range, as found in cameras that have log or raw modes. Highlight management has a great impact on the cinematic look particularly on day exteriors. Probably this would fall in the HD to S35 category.
 
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I'll be honest, the examples you're using are a little bit flawed. The first three cameras you mention are very much prosumer, but then you drop the EPIC in at the end.

It would be much fairer to go something like Betacam > Digibeta > HDCAM > 4K or something like that.

To me, the first time a camera became usable for cinema release, on a quality level similar to 35mm, would be the F900 and Viper in the early 00s. The leap from SD to HD was a great one and in my mind a serious step up - more so really than HD to 4K, although mathematically similar. IMHO.
 
Yep, there were other important advances and competing technologies that I did not mention. This is hardly a definitive timeline. But as I recall, it was a big deal for many to go from a "tape based workflow" to a "digital workflow". Not to say that DV didn't need tapes, but the notion of editing all your footage in a computer using software was quite revolutionary. Of course there was the iconic DVX100 with 24p, but here in PAL land I don't think it was as much of a big deal as we always have used 25fps. DV to HD was also huge but perhaps had more of an impact in the home entertainment industry. I would argue the move to bigger sensor cameras was more significant to filmmakers, since it allowed people to do things that simply could not have been done before ( unless using a super expensive cinema camera like Arri Alexa ). Low light capabilities of S35 sensors truly open a whole new world of creative possibilities for filmmakers, as did 1080p slow motion.
 
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Having made my living in video for the past 30 years, I can say the biggest leap in video imagery had to be the AJ-SDX900 for me. I remember using it for the first time and looking at the monitor thinking "anything I point the camera at looks incredible". For those of you who aren't familiar with the camera, it was Panasonic's full-size 2/3" camera with "film-look" and 24P. I was told that engineers formally working for Ikegami (their cameras always looked more organic, surreal or filmic than the competition) were now at Panasonic putting Panasonic on the map or starting what became "DVXUSERs". I can't remember which came first, the DVX or the SDX?
 
EDV said:
Sensor Size Chart
Click to expand...

The 4/3 sensor size is not correct in this chart. The correct sensor size should be 17.3mm x 13mm with sensor area of 225mm. ( the chart lists the 4/3 sensor cropped to 16:9 aspect ratio, but does not do the same for the other sensor sizes )
 
EDV said:
Of course there was the iconic DVX100 with 24p, but here in PAL land I don't think it was as much of a big deal as we always have used 25fps.
Click to expand...

But, video cameras in PAL land were shooting at 50i then, which still wasn't a film look...?

It's interesting to note that in the prosumer world, the large sensor look and 24p arrived roughly around the same time, 2002/3, with the P+S Technik Mini35 and the DVX100 respectively. I remember comparing 60i shallow focus material shot via the Mini35 to 24p material shot without it, and concluded that the 24p footage felt more cinematic, while the shallow focus material felt sort of strange and neither-here-nor-there.

I guess I misread the original question, which I took to mean "which advance contributed the most to achieve the cinematic look", i.e. recreating the feel of film. Now I'm thinking you were asking "which advance opened up new creative possibilities"...?
 
Actually, the question was "which of these represents the most significant leap forward?" I realize there were other significant
advancements not listed, such as 24p on cameras like the DVX100.
I was only elaborating on why I thought S35 sensor was significant. Maybe the most significant leap forward out of those listed.
 
For everyone working with BetaSP back in the day, the arrival of DV was quite earthshaking. HDcam was similarly eye-opening but way way more expensive, but I think the OP missed the biggest revolution--tapeless. Saying goodbye to five figure VTR's changed everything.
 
Lyle, I am all for a tapeless workflow, I embraced P2 and loved it, but fact is, tapes are still being used sometimes in broadcast, sometimes in small freelance jobs when the client asks for a tape copy of the footage.
 
Going from tape to tapeless has been big(Unfortunately tape still won't die. Even for the same network client I shoot tapeless and tape).

SD to HD was HUGE. Even more important than s35 sized sensors, in my opinion.

But the most significant step towards "film look" was 24P(with proper camera looks).
 
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