Which of these is best for my shoot next weekend?

Chamber005

Chamber005

Carbonite Member
So after getting lots of feedback on the audio and lighting in my series from people here, I'm grabbing new mics for next Saturday's shoot (as right now I'm using crappy CAD mics used for high tops).

It's an all-indoor scene. Pretty much two people sitting at a table talking.

Here are my options:

Sennheiser ME66

Or I can go the lav route with:

Shure 839

Shure MX184

or Countryman B3

Please post your vote!!

Thanks guys!!!

 
It's funny... a google search for "Shure 839" turned up a rental house in Chicago offering those exact choices. I assume you're renting?

Both Shure lavs will do you little good. They're bulky, not the best sounding. The B3 is a no-brainer there. But lavs in general may not be your best bet.

The ME-66 is also out, as shotguns are not the first choice for interiors (and the ME-66 isn't the best shotgun to begin with). Really, you want a hypercardioid condenser, but if we are indeed talking about the same rental place, that's not offered. So the AT Pro37 might be an option... it is a straight cardioid as opposed to a hyper, but cardioid can work for interiors. I have three of the Pro37 mics in my stage kit, and I have used one for dialog before just out of curiosity and it wasn't half bad.
 
I have a ME66, and it is a brittle sounding mic that does NOT do well indoors at all. A hypercardioyd is preferred for indoor dialogue. Some shotguns sound OK if there aren't walls near the mic, but the ME66 is pretty bad. Try a Rode NT3 for an affordable solution. or an Octiva MK 12.
 
Of the options in the first post, I'd have to go with the B3s.

Assuming C2V found the rental place you're dealing with, the Pro37 is a decent option. The Shure SM94 might be okay as well, I've used a very similar Shure on dialog before and it wasn't bad.
 
Ack, everywhere I look I can't find a hypercardioid for rent. I've checked Zacuto and several other places and all they offer are shotgun or lav mics.

I might have to go with the B3 and just see how things go...
 
C2V said:
It's funny... a google search for "Shure 839" turned up a rental house in Chicago offering those exact choices. I assume you're renting?

Both Shure lavs will do you little good. They're bulky, not the best sounding. The B3 is a no-brainer there. But lavs in general may not be your best bet.

The ME-66 is also out, as shotguns are not the first choice for interiors (and the ME-66 isn't the best shotgun to begin with). Really, you want a hypercardioid condenser, but if we are indeed talking about the same rental place, that's not offered. So the AT Pro37 might be an option... it is a straight cardioid as opposed to a hyper, but cardioid can work for interiors. I have three of the Pro37 mics in my stage kit, and I have used one for dialog before just out of curiosity and it wasn't half bad.
Click to expand...


I'm currently using CAD CM217 mics for the productions, but I kept getting negative feedback on the audio, so I figure it's time to make a change. Would the AT Pro37 be that different from the CM217?

Thanks!!!
 
Chamber005 said:
I'm currently using CAD CM217 mics for the productions, but I kept getting negative feedback on the audio, so I figure it's time to make a change. Would the AT Pro37 be that different from the CM217?

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's a better overall mic, though any mic will be limited by how you use it. There's an optimal working distance with any mic.

Try trewaudio.com. They have AT4053a hypers listed out of their Toronto rental house, but call the Nashville shop and see what they can do. They ship rentals anywhere.
 
C2V said:
Absolutely. It's a better overall mic, though any mic will be limited by how you use it. There's an optimal working distance with any mic.

Try trewaudio.com. They have AT4053a hypers listed out of their Toronto rental house, but call the Nashville shop and see what they can do. They ship rentals anywhere.
Click to expand...


Well since I'm shooting the next episode this Saturday, I'm going to just rent the B3s and use the CAD mics to grab some foley stuff.

One of the objectives of the series is to give me something month after month to work on and learn filmmaking with. Sound was on my list somewhere! ;) Trying out to see how I like using lav mics should be part of the experience, I think.

Thanks for putting me off shotguns, though. I don't think I understood how bad they are for indoor stuff.
 
Just going the OPS first post and with those options - none of which are ideal - but hey, you always work in an ideal situation?

SO, anyway I'd use the B3's, Id also be sure to use sound blankets to deaden the 99% likely echo in the room your thinking of shooting in. If you dont have sound blankets - quilts or other will reasonably assist. Test the location for this, because you will need to do lighting as well - so there's a number of considerations.
 
Chamber005 said:
Well since I'm shooting the next episode this Saturday, I'm going to just rent the B3s and use the CAD mics to grab some foley stuff.

One of the objectives of the series is to give me something month after month to work on and learn filmmaking with. Sound was on my list somewhere! ;) Trying out to see how I like using lav mics should be part of the experience, I think.

Thanks for putting me off shotguns, though. I don't think I understood how bad they are for indoor stuff.
Click to expand...

B3 lavs are fantastic... but they add their own challenges (hiding them properly while both getting clear, non-muffled sound and at the same time avoiding fabric rub). And lavs sound like... well... lavs.

Get the Sound for Film and Television DVD that's advertised on DVXUser. It's worth every dollar.
 
The ME66 sucks to be honest. Might as well spend less $ and get the Rode NTG-2 which sounds better anyway.

But as far as shotguns indoors, they will work, but going the LAV route for this is going to be better, but if you have enough channels just do both, two LAVs and a shotgun :)
 
jaredgiese said:
But as far as shotguns indoors, they will work,
Click to expand...

If, by "work," you mean that they will record sound... then yes, they will "work."

Just don't count on shotguns to record any professional-level of audio inside an apartment, house, office, garage, etc. They are too susceptible to the reflections that come from the walls, floor, and ceiling, leaving you with a hollow and unpleasant audio track. A hypercardioid's response pattern is better suited to rejecting those reflections.
 
I'd do the countryman's in a heartbeat. BUT you don't necessarily have to put them on the talent. In fact, you could probably get away with just one. But I'd use 2 for safety. Use them as plant mics. Hide them behind a plate, a centerpiece, anything. They are TINY. Put a tablecloth on the table, run the tiny cable underneath and cut a small hole for the mic element to poke out of... out of sight of the camera.

Lot's of ways to solve this issue.
 
PerroneFord said:
I'd do the countryman's in a heartbeat. BUT you don't necessarily have to put them on the talent. In fact, you could probably get away with just one. But I'd use 2 for safety. Use them as plant mics. Hide them behind a plate, a centerpiece, anything. They are TINY. Put a tablecloth on the table, run the tiny cable underneath and cut a small hole for the mic element to poke out of... out of sight of the camera.

Lot's of ways to solve this issue.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. The shoot pretty much consists of two guys eating lunch at a table, so your advice might come in handy. One of them is wearing a large, black robe, though, so I think I could get away with hiding his pretty easily (the lavs I'm renting are black).

All good ideas here. I'm also going to try putting a bit of moleskin around the outside of the heads to reduce fabric noise (unless of course I can find somewhere stationary to place them).

At least I'll have a day to play around with them. Good times.

Thanks guys!!

:D
 
Of the mics you mentioned, my first choice would be the ME-66. It's true that supercardioid mics (often also called hypercardioid) can do a better job of handling reverberant interiors, but if your intereior set is not reverberant, it will not be a problem, and the shotgun will reject off-axis ambience better.

When you can get the mic in a good position (which often means close enough), the boom is almost always preferred over a body mic.

The Shure 839 is designed for sound reinforcement work and would not be a good choice for low-level dialog recording. The Shure MX184 is a supercardioid lav, also designed for speaker systems, and would be even less desirable for dialog recording.

The Countryman B3 is a nice microphone, but intended for very high volume singing and drama voices (the B stands for Broadway), and would not be the best choice for normal low level dialog recording, even though it is an omni mic.

Of the microphone choices you mentioned, the only mic designed for the use you described is the Sennheiser ME66, which would also be my choice.

Glen Trew
 
Last edited:
Glen Trew said:
.....
The Countryman B3 is a nice microphone, but intended for very high volume singing and drama voices (the B stands for Broadway), and would be the best choice for normal low level dialog recording, even though it is an omni mic.

....
Glen Trew
Click to expand...

The above quote had a serious typo that I corrected. It should read:

...and would NOT be the best choice for normal low level dialog recording,...
 
Glen Trew said:
The above quote had a serious typo that I corrected. It should read:

...and would NOT be the best choice for normal low level dialog recording,...
Click to expand...


Hm. After deciding to go with the Countrymans (over the ones listed here), I checked online and even here on DVX and found several instances of people using them for film. Also, in regards to the set up, my guys are going to be seated right next to a wall, so I really think the shotgun would have been death.

Regardless, I'm excited about using lavs for the first time. Like I said previously, a lot of this project is about the learning process. All of these little "shorts" (webisodes) are my first go at trying my hand at filmmaking. I'm sure the Countrymans will sound better than my CAD high top mics. And people talk about using them in documentarys, etc. So they must work with normal level dialog recording.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=157516
 
I used B3's connected to G2 wireless setups frequently when recording my feature. First choice was an Oktava hyper, but often the shot required the mic to be too far away so I opted for the b3's. Overall I was satisfied with them, and if hardwired they would sound even better. As Barry's sound DVD says, the number one thing is getting the mic close, and at 6" or so the B3 is often going to be closer than you can get anything else. There is no lack of fidelity, they can handle a booming bass voice with ease. Not always the best choice for women though. Surprisingly I usually preferred my Oktava to my AT 4053A. It was better at picking up weak womens voices and it seemed like room echo was less noticeable.
 
Chamber005 said:
Hm. After deciding to go with the Countrymans (over the ones listed here), I checked online and even here on DVX and found several instances of people using them for film. Also, in regards to the set up, my guys are going to be seated right next to a wall, so I really think the shotgun would have been death.

Regardless, I'm excited about using lavs for the first time. Like I said previously, a lot of this project is about the learning process. All of these little "shorts" (webisodes) are my first go at trying my hand at filmmaking. I'm sure the Countrymans will sound better than my CAD high top mics. And people talk about using them in documentarys, etc. So they must work with normal level dialog recording.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=157516
Click to expand...

The Countryman B3 can certainly get acceptable results, but be ready to turn up the gain on your transmitters to keep noise and compander artifacts to a minimum (assuming you are going wireless). It's true that many pro soundmixers use Countryman lavs for features and TV drama, but instead of the B3 they are usually the B6, which are available in higher sensitivity versions for dialog.

I would still not give up on the boom until you get there and listen to a rehearsal. Two omni lavs next to a wall can pick up more reverberation than one short shotgun mic. Also, two lavs mixed together will have phasing issues to deal with. A sound mixer with one year experience in film/TV drama would often first go to the lavs. A sound mixer with 20 years experience would probably first go to the boom.

Glen Trew
 
Last edited:
Glen Trew said:
The Countryman B3 can certainly get acceptable results, but be ready to turn up the gain on you transmitters to keep noise and compander artifacts to a minimum (assuming you are going wireless). It's true that many pro soundmixers use Countryman lavs for features and TV drama, but instead of the B3 they are usually the B6, which are available in higher sensitivity versions for dialog.

I would still not give up on the boom until you get there and listen to a rehearsal. Two omni lavs next to a wall can pick up more reverberation than one short shotgun mic. Also, two lavs mixed together will have phasing issues to deal with. A sound mixer with one year experience in film/TV drama would often first go to the lavs. A sound mixer with 20 years experience would probably first go to the boom.

Glen Trew
Click to expand...

Not sure what "phasing" is -- hence the learning process, right?

Regardless, they have to be better than my CAD 217 drum mics! lol I'm picking up the B3s today and will play around with them. Also, they aren't wireless -- I didn't want to risk doing anything wireless if I wasn't using the absolute top-of-the-line. From what I've heard a decent (not good) wired lav will sound better than a good (not great) wireless.

I'm just excited about the shoot tomorrow regardless. I think it's going to be a great time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top