Which is Better: S-LOG w/o Ex Recorder or Ex Recorder w/o S-LOG?

Mitch Gross said:
Even though it was Sony's intent that S-Log be used for later post color correction, we all know that often we find other ways to use tools. Just like FILM REC mode on the Panasonic Varicam was really only meant for film out finishes, but many people chose to shoot with in to get an extended gamma range and simply light and expose to that. Sony offers a very similar mode using their Hypergamma settings. The Japanese engineers might say that we're "using it wrong<" but so what if we like the way it looks?

Instead of the overly saturated, heavy-colored highlights look of Sony's Rec709, try this: shoot in S-Log and RECORD one of the Hypergamma viewing LUTs. I like the 800% with grey point at 40. You get an expanded Dynamic Range compared to Rec709, but with some protection from clipping at the top. Even more importantly you peel away Sony's color matrixing, which has the classic "Sony look" of over-saturated highlights that can both appear very Kodachrome-esque and can also lead to odd over-exposure highlight artifacts like white objects turning yellow. On film (and on the film-emulating look of the Alexa), colors desaturate as they reach overexposure into white. I much prefer that look.

Shoot in this mode and record it either externally or internally. You my find that you wish to add a little touch of saturaton to the final image, or perhaps not depending on your taste. But you won't have to go through a rigorous color correction and gamma adjustment, which is when the lower bit depth and heavier compression really bites you. Just light to this look and you can get stunning images out of the F3 which are remarkably better than the standard Rec709, no matter what you do in the Picture Profile menus. You can record this externally or to the SxS cards. It really turns the F3 into an altogether different camera.

Mitch,

I recorded with Samurai as per your suggestion and the whole video is green in color. What am I doing wrong?
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For me would be SLOG first no question. I hate the Sony color matrix. SLOG goes around it and gives you all the sensor has to give. From there, even at 4:2:0, you can get a stunning picture. With the Sony Matrix, even with a recorder, you're getting an EX3/EX1 with shallow DOF. I don't like the look.
 
SPZ! Yes indeed. I am with you. Well said. I am in the search for a less-expensive run-n-gun (integrated lens) camera and this is exactly why I don't want an EX1. I think it's Canon XF series for me.
 
Hi Nate

I hope you're keeping well. Would it be at all possible for you upload a clip that I could download, shot on the SxS cards with S-log enabled. I would love to see how it looks in my edit. Any length clip would be ideal. I currently shoot without S-log but use a Samurai and am really happy with the results - but your workflow sounds ideal, extending the dynamic range of the camera, improved 'colours' - but without the hassle of post production time on the footage.

Thanks, Sparky
 
xhridhar said:
I recorded with Samurai as per your suggestion and the whole video is green in color. What am I doing wrong?
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You probably plugged into the A port instead of the SDI out. That will give you all green clips. Using the A port this way will be enabled in F3 firmware v1.3 coming out this month.
 
Sparky874 said:
Hi Nate

I hope you're keeping well. Would it be at all possible for you upload a clip that I could download, shot on the SxS cards with S-log enabled. I would love to see how it looks in my edit. Any length clip would be ideal. I currently shoot without S-log but use a Samurai and am really happy with the results - but your workflow sounds ideal, extending the dynamic range of the camera, improved 'colours' - but without the hassle of post production time on the footage.

Thanks, Sparky
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Busy next few days. I'll see what I have that I can do. To really see any difference right away, it kinda has to be a daylight exterior.
 
Sparky874 said:
Hi Nate

I hope you're keeping well. Would it be at all possible for you upload a clip that I could download, shot on the SxS cards with S-log enabled. I would love to see how it looks in my edit. Any length clip would be ideal. I currently shoot without S-log but use a Samurai and am really happy with the results - but your workflow sounds ideal, extending the dynamic range of the camera, improved 'colours' - but without the hassle of post production time on the footage.

Thanks, Sparky
Click to expand...

A single clip all by itself does not tell you very much. If you really want to evaluate S-LOG recorded on SxS cards you really need to have multiple clips of the same scene with/without S-LOG to compare -- thus the reason for creating my 126 clips of sample footage. I've done the work to setup and shoot the clips, all someone who is serious about it has to do now is drop the footage into their computer and judge for themselves.
http://www.vortexmedia.com/F3_TEST_DRIVE.html
 
Thanks Doug.
Is anyone out there editing F3 S-log footage with Sony Vegas? Would love to hear from you about your workflow.
 
Hi Nate

Hope you can help. I am considering purchasing the S-LOG upgrade (just to shoot on the sxs cards) and just have a couple of questions for you may be able to help with. Can you set the colour temp of the camera to any level you want when shooting directly to the sxs cards. I believe with S-LOG you can only shoot 5600k and have to adjust it post? Your workflow sounds very straightforward. I have the Samurai, but edit with Sony Vegas, and don't think I can edit the footage with this software. Cheers, Sparky
 
Until firmware Rev 1.2, your choice was either a preset of 3200 or 5600K. With firmware version 1.2, you can adjust R/B white offset.

I am certain that with the free ProRes codec for Windows, you can read the Samurai ProRes files in Vegas. While I see everyone's point that S-Log bypasses the Sony color matrices, I honestly cannot see recording S-Log to SxS cards when you have a 4:2:2 recorder.

Just my .02

Ned Soltz
 
nsoltz said:
Until firmware Rev 1.2, your choice was either a preset of 3200 or 5600K. With firmware version 1.2, you can adjust R/B white offset.

I am certain that with the free ProRes codec for Windows, you can read the Samurai ProRes files in Vegas. While I see everyone's point that S-Log bypasses the Sony color matrices, I honestly cannot see recording S-Log to SxS cards when you have a 4:2:2 recorder.
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There are two aspects to reading the ProRes files. If your recorder is using an apple file structure you need something like macdrive to read the card in windows.

Then to play the file in your NLE you need a codec. I REALLY hate the apple installer because it messes up many other settings. I'm about to try a QT alternative, which is a stripped down version of the codec. If anyone else has used it please let me know.

http://www.filehippo.com/download_quicktime_alternative/2615
 
Don't know about that QT component. The Samurai writes in Fat32 so that should present no problem on a PC. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, the only external recorder which writes in HFS+ is the HyperdeckShuttle.

Ned
 
When using the Ki Pro Mini I had to use macdrive, but its possible that everything was just set up that way when I got it. I haven't used the Samurai yet, but should have a chance to use one in 10 days or so.
 
nsoltz said:
Don't know about that QT component. The Samurai writes in Fat32 so that should present no problem on a PC. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, the only external recorder which writes in HFS+ is the HyperdeckShuttle.

Ned
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Thanks guys, I have no problem bringing in ProRes clips into Sony Vegas - but I 'm unsure what the post production process with the clips would be like with S-log clips.
 
Not following you on that one.

Post production of ProRes S-Log clips is no different from post production of S-Log SxS clips, except with the ProRes from your Samurai you have twice the color information and more latitude to grade. Either way, you have to grade.
 
nsoltz said:
Not following you on that one.

Post production of ProRes S-Log clips is no different from post production of S-Log SxS clips, except with the ProRes from your Samurai you have twice the color information and more latitude to grade. Either way, you have to grade.
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Thanks for taking the time to get back to me, but excuse my following ignorance: to be able to edit the S-LOG footage, don't you need to be able to access the LUT tables in the edit itself to grade the footage? Thanks, Sparky
 
Doug Jensen said:
A single clip all by itself does not tell you very much. If you really want to evaluate S-LOG recorded on SxS cards you really need to have multiple clips of the same scene with/without S-LOG to compare -- thus the reason for creating my 126 clips of sample footage. I've done the work to setup and shoot the clips, all someone who is serious about it has to do now is drop the footage into their computer and judge for themselves.
http://www.vortexmedia.com/F3_TEST_DRIVE.html
Click to expand...

As someone trying to make this decision myself, I've purchased this set and I've found it incredibly useful.
 
Sparky874 said:
Is there a standard picture profile you shoot with using S-LOG or would you adjust your previous setting? Thanks.
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Sorry just watched great video on Abelcine, and now understand S-LOG set up much better, as you don't use picture profiles anymore etc. Whole set up actually sounds a little easier! I have order S-LOG upgrade and will receive at the end of the week, and can't wait to try it. Sparky
 
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