which gamma for extreme sunlight

S

shAi

Well-known member
i start shooting tomorrow (DVX100E) my debut 90min. fiction, on what seems to be a very sunny week, which is in a way good, cos we wanted to achive the feeling of a mercyless hot summer. sun will play a roll here...
we have no access to electricity outside.. so, available light only, supported with styro and such.
i was testing throughout the last week to decide in which way should i approach these extreme light situaitions. i will NOT be able to avoid burnouts.. no way.. i just have to decide how to handle em the best way.
cine gamma is still a winner in terms of dynamic range, but the burnouts pick not so nicely, as most of you know. it means - little knee correction in post, which brings me to think, why not using high gamma from the begining?! (i want to minimize post-dependency as possible). problem is, that high gamma, out of the box, looks somewhat too ideoish to me..

so.. what would you do?

thakns :)
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

Shai, funny you're posting this because I have the exact same situation. I'm shooting in the desert this weekend, El Mirage, CA. So I know I'll get more dynamic range out of the cine gamma, but the high gamma looks pretty cool. I know the desert is going to be contrasty as hell. I'm turning down the chroma, on my monitor it looks a lot less noisy. Following reading another post, I'm also wondering whether I can white balance with ND and a POLARIZER on. I'd hate to have to remove them prior to white balancing throughout the day. Here's the settings I'm thinking of...
Detail -4
Chroma level -5
Chroma Phase -5
Color Temp 0
Mater PED 0
A. Iris Level -3
Gamma High
Skin Tone Off
Matrix Cinelike
Detail Thin
24pADV


What do you think?

Best- Mike
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

looks good.. besides the cine-like matrix . . i thought you're not willing to achieve highly saturated..
white balance with ND is no problem, but don't know about the polarizer.. i would take it off before WB.

thanks for sharing,
shai
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

Shai,
I've had the best luck in contrasty sunlight with the high gamma setting and normal color matrix. The cine matrix seems to generate more noise. Expose for the highlights and let the gamma (and/or a Pola) take care of the shadows. Using a polarizer properly will allow you to control the specular highlights and open up a tad for better shadows.
White balance with the pola on the lens, as some filters have a slight color cast that WB will correct for you.
Good Luck.
Ken
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

Mike, yes.. i would chose normal matrix.

thanks Ken. we use the anamorphic lens and therefore cant have a mattebox for swivel filter tray (for pola).. though i'm going to tape ND filters on, ghetto style...
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

for the settings that are listed above, are you using a monitor outside in the sunlight to adjust or are you inside adusting the settings and watching the monitor?
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

I agree with KPLO,

If you have the original DVX100, go with the "high" gamma setting.
It can handle much more highlights details and shadows at the same time than cinelike.

If you have the DVX100A, use the new cinelikeD gamma setting.
...really really amazing dynamic range for a 1/3' CCDs.
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

Well, we shot this weekend with slight variations from these settings after checking them on our monitor. Nice clean signal. Faster shutter and lots to work with in post. Best- Mike
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

My experience (which probably isn't worth as much as most of you) is that CineLike_D tends to cause terrible noise in the shadows.  I read that the reason for this is because it applies a selective gain (which causes that awful noise) to parts of the image.  At any rate, I shot some stuff outside in the bright sun a week or two ago, and the noise was terrible.  Determined to fix the problem, I setup a test shot outside with a good variety of tonal range and color and recorded about 25 quick clips, changing settings for each one and talking into the camera, describing the settings.  Then I pulled it all into post and looked at it on my monitor.  Usually, the noise doesn't show up on the LCD as much.  Anyway, I found that several things affect the noise.  

First, when played back on a normal TV, it isn't quite as bad.  The best Gamma setting to get rid of noise is CineLike, with Normal Matrix.  Detail coring makes a BIG difference (I set it all the way to +7).  Also, dropping the pedastal a few stops gives some deeper blacks with less noise.  I'm still not thrilled with my images as opposed to those I've seen posted here, but I think I'm getting better.  I also read (on this board) that this camera gets the best S/N ratio from tungsten lighting, and it tends to produce a slightly noiser image when filming daylight scenes.  One guy's solution was to put an orange filter on (85) and WB through it.  This noise issue is a big one for me...if anyone has any tips, please let me know.  Any good ways to remove grain and noise in Vegas 5?  Thanks guys, good luck with your shoot!

Ryan
 
Re: which gamma for extreme sunlight

dont forget the DVX100A has very strong color saturation.

1-You can use -3 color level (with the cinegamma color matrix) and still have a very beautifull color saturation.

2-Always use the white balance presets = less noise, big improvement.

3-or use the normal gamma setting (and compensate with +2 color phase) Use 0 (normal) color saturation in this case.

4-IMHO, the detail coring does not influence the chroma noise at all.
..but it make a little difference in luma noise though...but i still
prefer the -3 setting

good luck !
 
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