Which cheap shot gun mic to get? I have no clue.

f/0.0 said:
The bottom line is this: If not $50 mic, I will just end up using internal mic. I know $50 mic sucks but it should be FAR better than internal one and that's the point.
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Two things:

One, in regards to the cab driver comment, please know that the community at large here discourages hurling insults like that. I'm sorry that dre83 found the need to go there. There's no reason to condemn an individual's future in these matters. </rant>

Two, back on-topic, the fact is that $50 can do you far more good in a rental situation than in a purchase. And considering that you're now budgeting for a $65 purchase, the rental will go even further. Please give this some serious consideration. A wireless kit will rent for about the same as a boom kit. A hard-wired lav will rent for less than that. Beg/borrow a little extra gear on top of that and you'll be in a much better spot. From a viewer's stand-point, the audience will forgive flubs in the image far more than bad audio. You may say you don't care about sound (in fact, you did say that), but you still came to the audio forum seeking advice. There's a bit of a paradox here.

I have a RODE VideoMic for my DSLR, but it serves only to improve the scratch audio on my camera - sound that is never used in post. I still carry a full audio kit with a separate sound recorder. Bad sound can kill a picture in a heartbeat. Please understand that many of the folks who dwell in this forum are working sound professionals, so the advice you're getting here is not based in snobbery but in practical working experience. So in the same vein that the cab driver comment was a bit out of line, calling those of us here who know what we're doing "snobs" is also not going to help matters.

We're not telling you to spend $20k on a sound kit, but trying to help you find a better solution that won't bankrupt you.
 
I'll toss in one On Topic comment.
Luckily for me I just saw this and skipped all the name calling.

So the short of it is $50 will not drastically improve your sound. If you really don't care then why spend the $50?
My guess is you care a bit or you wouldn't have asked in the first place. You got surprised by the answer and got defensive.

Lets flip it a bit. I have a T2i I want a fast 28 -85 zoom and my budget is $50. Now you can tell me I can't do it but I'm sure I can get a plastic one off eBay and use an adapter and it will be OK because I don't really care about image.

That is basically what ou came here saying. So yes you offended people. And when they gave you the truth, you can't buy a shotgun worth owning for $50, you called them snobs.

Your a student. If this is above high school, say a JC then you should be able to check out equipment.

There really isn't anything your going to be able to buy for $50 unless you get a great deal on a used one. Possible but not too likely.

The better choice is to put a listing in Craig's List looking for a student with a mic.

As to "not caring" about sound. It's fine to not be focused on sound (if your not a sound person), but IF you want to work professionally you have to give some thought to it. I've seen some reels by people who were DP's or CG folks that had really bad sound and it hurt the reel, a LOT. I was on a reel review committee and it wasn't just the sound folks (basically me) who were bothered by bad/ boring sound. One of the CG whohas was the most critical and flat out told one person that the visuals were fine but he would never hire them based on the reel because the sound sucked. His reasoning was that if you didn't exercise enough quality control to have decent sound you couldn't be depended on to exercise quality control in the rest of your work.

So to a certain extent this thread circles around to a recent topic here.

Are you a would be future professional, a high achieving amateur, or "I like to fool around on the weekends" kind of filmmaker.


Because if your the first you NEED to start caring about sound, the second you should probably start thinking more about sound, and if the third - do what ever you want. It's perfectly legit to do it for fun, but you kind of need to let people know that since most of the folks on this board are either working professionals or one of the first two categories.

You presented your self as if you were in category two but then acted like you were in #3 (with an attitude).
 
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f/0.0 said:
Though I find you quite funny, I know where you stand. When people ask me for a camera advice, I recommand DSLRs when they're just looking for P&S.
But I know not everybody is crazy as I'm when it comes down to IQ and they may not even notice the difference, or just not care about it at all. Knowing that, I try to give my best advice based on their need/want instead of my snobbism.
Saying I may end up being a cab driver because I asked for a $50 mic? Oh man, that cracks me up. That's so low and plain stupid.

The bottom line is this: If not $50 mic, I will just end up using internal mic. I know $50 mic sucks but it should be FAR better than internal one and that's the point.


EDIT: Ooops, I thought you were dre83.
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Low and plain stupid.... Saying "I dont't really care about sound" in the sound section of a forum is plain stupid actualy...

At one side you have the "I don't care about sound guy", at the other side there's the "I do care about sound guy". Both give something to show....who think will have the most succes ?

about the cab driver thing. Don't take it to seriously and literary. It's not that I want you to become a cap driver. But if you don't take things seriously....well you will have to learn from your mistakes.
 
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f/0.0 said:
I forgot to mention it's for a school project and it doesn't need to be a professional level.

How about this one?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/444022-REG/Azden_SMX_10_SMX_10_Stereo_Microphone.html
BTW, I'm using 5d mk2.
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I love the copy on this

The Azden SMX-10 is a directional stereo microphone for use with standard consumer video cameras. The microphone delivers professional stereo placement and overall audio quality at an affordable price. The SMX-10 measures 6.96" (177mm) in length and includes a windscreen and camera hot-shoe mount. The light weight electret condenser microphone is powered with a single AAA alkaline battery (not included) for up to 400 hours. The coiled cable features a stereo 1/8" (3.5mm) TRS mini connector.

Accurate stereo capturing while rejecting off-axis noise.
Powered with AAA alkaline battery for up to 400 hours.
Coiled cable with 1/8" (3.5mm) stereo connector.
Includes hot-shoe mount and windscreen.
Click to expand...

Emphasis added. The "directional stereo" cracks me up but the last bit is aaaa... I'm not sure it qualifies as fraud but it certainly isn't "true". You can't "reject" off axis sound AND record an "accurate" stereo image.

If they really want to make some money they should license that noise detecting circuit. Imagine, you could point the mic just about anywhere and it would reject what you don't want and keep what you want!
 
davefisk said:
You say you are a student, is that high school or college? Is this a graded project for school or something you are doing on your own? What's the purpose of doing this project? Do you want to build a reel? Are people other than you going to see this? Is it just for your own personal experience?

I ask these questions because they are important. I have to say, the fact that you are calling us audio people, people that are trying to help you, "snobbish" when you say something like this makes you look...well...like someone who has a lot to learn. It is this type of mentality that will keep you from becoming successful as a filmmaker, thus the comment someone made about being a cab driver. Many of us are speaking from real world experience, and to dismiss the advice given here is only detrimental to you. I suggest you re-think your position on this, and stop insulting people with real world experience.
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College, graded project, and people are going to see it. It doesn't need to be professional level or anything. As I mentioned before, even internal mic worked okay but I figure $50 mic would work far better than internal one. Oh and, I'm not looking forward to be a successful filmmaker or cab driver.

I'm sorry if I offened you people in general. That remark was toward dre83 and a few others for they were showing amazing amount of stpuid snobbism. Really, asking for a $50 mic is not insulting "people with real world experience." Rather, predicing my future based on the question is an insult.


muroshi said:
Picture quality of 5d m2 isn't anything near double of a T2i. Why not sell the 5d and buy one and get a good sound kit instead that provides 3 times better sound?
Click to expand...

I mainly do 'real world' photography works and I need that FF. If not, I would've sold it without a doubt and got GH2 for cheap.


Anyways, I know you all want me to have best possible solution and I'm thankful for that. But, keep it mind I'm really short on budget and I just need something better than the internal mic. Keep it mind it's for a simple project and others are using phones/P&S cameras.
 
f/0.0 said:
College, graded project, and people are going to see it. It doesn't need to be professional level or anything. As I mentioned before, even internal mic worked okay but I figure $50 mic would work far better than internal one. Oh and, I'm not looking forward to be a successful filmmaker or cab driver.

I'm sorry if I offened you people in general. That remark was toward dre83 and a few others for they were showing amazing amount of stpuid snobbism. Really, asking for a $50 mic is not insulting "people with real world experience." Rather, predicing my future based on the question is an insult.




I mainly do 'real world' photography works and I need that FF. If not, I would've sold it without a doubt and got GH2 for cheap.


Anyways, I know you all want me to have best possible solution and I'm thankful for that. But, keep it mind I'm really short on budget and I just need something better than the internal mic. Keep it mind it's for a simple project and others are using phones/P&S cameras.
Click to expand...

It's not equipment snobbery you are witnessing. Equipment snobbery would be telling you you MUST buy a $2500 Schoeps. No matter how process of educating you to the real world is phrased, the bottom line remains that $50 shotgun mics simply don't exist. No one is saying that you have to go out and buy a fully professional audio kit. But it appears you have come up with a $50 budget without any reearch whatsoever on a: what would be the minimum equipment that would be required in order to improve sound over the internal mic; and b: what that equipment costs. Before you set your budget you need to do some research. The approach you voiced is rather like asking a photography forum for suggestions on a backup body for your 5D having alreeady decided that the most you'll spend is for a Holga, since its the cheapest camera on the market, and still expect to get acceptable image quality.

About the bottom of the range that would improve the sound over the internal mic is a Rode Videomic, about $150, or a Rode Videomic Pro at about $225. These are consumer mics, not profressional kit, that are just about the least expensive mics on the market that actually work fairly well. Then, in order to get sound that is listenable, you'll need to get the mic to within about 20 inches of the interview subject's mouth - that requirement created by the laws of physics of sound, shotguns are not like a telephoto for sound, mics that magnify distant sounds like lenses magnify distant images are physically impossible to make - and the additional equipment to get it there is going to translate into some more $$$. This is a reality you are simply going to have to deal with and it is not equipment snobbery to try to educate you on those facts.

I'm going to repeat my earlier advice for you to consider using a clip-on lav mic on the interview subject instead of a shotgun. You'll get better sound than a 'gun back at the camera will give you and there are several that you'll probably find acceptable that are closer to your beudget. One that has been highly favoured by the wedding shooters especially is the Giant Squid
 
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f/0.0 said:
I know, I know. But the matter of fact is that I don't really care about sound.
I'm amazingly picky on image/video/print quality but not sound. I even find this amusing.
Click to expand...

I'm shocked - sound is at the very least equal in importance to the pictures - probably actually more important.

If you don't care about sound you will always be making rubbish productions - however good the pictures are, the production will always be cr*p if the sound is not equally as good.

If you don't care about sound, then you might as well throw the camera away and not bother - or just stick with stills photography.

Sorry.
 
Yes, I do understand $50 mic is not good and has no production value. But, as I've stated many times, it's a school project. Others are even use phones, P&S cameras and their internal mics.
Before, I used internal mic on 5d mk2 and it was okay. $50 mic must be terrible but would it be worse than using that internal mic?

If someone was asking for a wildlife photography and he's talking about getting one of those 10x P&S zoom cameras, I'd think it's nonsense just like my asking for a $50 mic.
But, it's not that case. It's like someone is asking for a camera so he could take pictures of his dogs for now.

I know I'll probably end up getting, at least, Rode Pro model. The point is that's not what I can get as of now. I need something cheap for now.
 
f/0.0 said:
Yes, I do understand $50 mic is not good and has no production value. But, as I've stated many times, it's a school project. Others are even use phones, P&S cameras and their internal mics.
Before, I used internal mic on 5d mk2 and it was okay. $50 mic must be terrible but would it be worse than using that internal mic?

If someone was asking for a wildlife photography and he's talking about getting one of those 10x P&S zoom cameras, I'd think it's nonsense just like my asking for a $50 mic.
But, it's not that case. It's like someone is asking for a camera so he could take pictures of his dogs for now.

I know I'll probably end up getting, at least, Rode Pro model. The point is that's not what I can get as of now. I need something cheap for now.
Click to expand...

What you are refusing to accept is the fact that $50 shotgun mics, even terrible sounding ones, simply DO NOT EXIST. It's not elitism or snobbery; we're not keeping trade secrets from you or anything or ignoring cheap solutions. No matter how badly you want it to be able to buy a shotgun mic for $50 or less, you simply can't do it, due to the simple fact that there aren't any out there to be bought. The Rode Videomic is just about the cheapest thing there is on the market, certainly it's the cheapest that isn't completely throwing your money away for garbage.
 
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f/0.0 said:
I know I'll probably end up getting, at least, Rode Pro model. The point is that's not what I can get as of now. I need something cheap for now.
Click to expand...

So your budget has now grown from $50 to $225, though the solution isn't much better. I'm going to say this one last time: don't buy, RENT.

Buying cheap is not going to help you now or in the long run, but that money can go a long way for renting the equipment you need. At this point, you're willing to spend enough to rent a sound recorder and a decent mic for at least a couple of days.

And so what if others in your class are shooting their videos on phones and point-and-shoot cameras. If you end up with a video that looks and sounds that much better, yours will stand out that much more.
 
Maybe the zoom h1 recorder with a rode lav? (under 300$) and gaffatape it to the interviewed person?
 
Steve House said:
What you are refusing to accept is the fact that $50 shotgun mics, even terrible sounding ones, simply DO NOT EXIST.
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With all due respect, this is a matter or perspective. Many of us in this forum really know good sounding audio when we hear it. I would guess that in a blind listening test, most of us could pick out the difference between a cheap Azden shotgun, an ME66, a Rode NTG3, and a Schoeps CMIT5U. It would be easy.

When I say "a matter of perspective," I'm talking about that pin-hole mic that's on the front of most DSLR cameras. The mic on the 5D mkII is terrible. The Nikon DSLRs sound like a living nightmare.

The truth is that many people who are used to the nasty sound that the built-in mic on their DSLR will end up buying that Azden mic, and they're usually pleased with the improvement they get. Is it the high standard of audio that we all strive to achieve? No. It's way off. Is it a big improvement for some people who don't know any better? Yes, it is. Read the customer reviews on that mic. Like it or not, it's an improvement for some people. It exists.

Do I think it's money well spent? No. Especially for someone who seems like they're going to spend $230 on a Rode VideoMic Pro within the next 12 months.

My 2 cents.
 
John Willett said:
Actually, $50 would be best spent on hiring a mic. But even that is incredibly cheap even for this.
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I agree, but not that you can't hire a decent one for that price.

I hired some various shotgun mics for a recent production i did, mainly because i couldn't justify buying them at this moment in time.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I bought a Rode NTG-2 after deciding I would need a shotgun mic for occasional use. I'm impressed with it given the price.
 
Sam Mallery said:
With all due respect, this is a matter or perspective. Many of us in this forum really know good sounding audio when we hear it. I would guess that in a blind listening test, most of us could pick out the difference between a cheap Azden shotgun, an ME66, a Rode NTG3, and a Schoeps CMIT5U. It would be easy.

....
Click to expand...

Even the cheap Azden shotgun is going to cost more than $50. A quick glance at the Azden site reveals their cheapest offering is the SGM-X at $170.
 
Steve House said:
Even the cheap Azden shotgun is going to cost more than $50. A quick glance at the Azden site reveals their cheapest offering is the SGM-X at $170.
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Steve they are talking about the mic the OP put links to. It's not a shotgun but Azden calls it a "stereo shotgun". It also BTW isn't $50 on that link it's like $60.

Anyway that is the cheap POS mic he's talking about.

The basic point is that there isn't a mic in that range that is WORTH owning.

To the OP:

I've been there and your getting good advice. The Azden may be an improvement over the pinhole mic.

But as you have as much as said you know that it is a POS. It may be an improvement because it will be slightly more isolated from the camera, and it's probably slightly more directional.

It also is going to be cheaply built so quality control will be ??? ie it may not work out of the box. It probably has really bad freq response, it is probably noisy as hell and it probably sounds just plain bad.

The built in mic is pretty god awful so with a bar that low even this awful mic may be an improvement. But that doesn't make it a good investment.

When I was very young and broke I bought mics from places like DAK (A few of you I'm sure remember them). They were the same kind of mics as the Azden. The blurbs sounded like good quality at a cheap price and they looked like a mic! You can build your own from parts at Radioshack and get just as good if not a better mic at a lower price, and you'll learn something.

ALL the money in these cheap mics goes into making it look like a mic. What's inside is a couple of really cheap electret elements you can pick up for a couple of bucks at RS . It takes very little to wire them up and you have a "mic". The body's on the cheapies while "looking" like a mic are not designed for acoustics and probably hurt the mic more than help it.

THe bottom line is it's a waste of $50, unless that is as far as you are ever going to go AND you can't learn how to solder (in which case that camera is also probably too complicated (ie I could teach you how to solder well enough for this project in about ten minutes).
 
Sam Mallery said:
With all due respect, this is a matter or perspective. Many of us in this forum really know good sounding audio when we hear it. I would guess that in a blind listening test, most of us could pick out the difference between a cheap Azden shotgun, an ME66, a Rode NTG3, and a Schoeps CMIT5U. It would be easy.

When I say "a matter of perspective," I'm talking about that pin-hole mic that's on the front of most DSLR cameras. The mic on the 5D mkII is terrible. The Nikon DSLRs sound like a living nightmare.

The truth is that many people who are used to the nasty sound that the built-in mic on their DSLR will end up buying that Azden mic, and they're usually pleased with the improvement they get. Is it the high standard of audio that we all strive to achieve? No. It's way off. Is it a big improvement for some people who don't know any better? Yes, it is. Read the customer reviews on that mic. Like it or not, it's an improvement for some people. It exists.

Do I think it's money well spent? No. Especially for someone who seems like they're going to spend $230 on a Rode VideoMic Pro within the next 12 months.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Thank you for being right on the point.

I didn't come here to point out that there's no difference between cheap mic to expensive ones. Some people took it that way thus becoming offensive.
I know it's POS but the matter of fact is, it's far better POS than internal mic on 5d mk2. Also, the project will be played in a regular classroom where they have equally cheap POS speakers. Hell, most of, if not all, others are using their phones and regular P&S cameras. Trust me, $50 is POS but in this case, it'll be a POS with amazing sound quality.
Of course, if money wasn't tight, I would've went for Rode Pro. But, that is not the case. Production value? It's a one-man project with zero budget.
I know I'll, at least, get RODE Pro in time but I'm not in that time frame as of now. For now, it's that around $50 mic or nothing. I guess I'll use it as computer mic. later on but I can make good use out of it for now.

So the question continues. Which around $50 would be good?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2|0&ci=8902&N=4294548274

The only advice I got is from here: http://pro-audio.bhinsights.com/content/hdslr-shotgun-microphones.html

EDIT:
It seems like this mic. ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&sku=664440&is=REG&A=details&Q= ) is getting good reviews. Any thoughts?
 
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Actually if $50 is your budget for a mic. for a school project, I would suggest you do not use sound at all and make a silent movie.

Any sound will be total cr*p, so make a silent movie.

This will actually concentrate you to make the pictures that will tell the story without sound and you will actually learn a lot about picture making by doing it this way.

Only do sound when you can get the equipment to do it justice.

I'm not talking top of the range, just enough so that your project will be worth doing and not destroyed through bad sound.
 
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