Which announcement were you more satisfied with?

Which announcement were you more satisfied with?

  • Canon's EOS C300

    Votes: 22 14.3%

  • Red's Scarlet

    Votes: 132 85.7%
  • Total voters
    154
Razz16mm said:
For me Scarlet or Epic are as close to an ideal camera as it gets. In one camera Scarlet can replace a 5d or higher class SLR, and 35mm/16mm format motion cameras for most purposes. But more than that it blurs the boundaries between motion and stills in ways that will lead to new shooting styles and new aesthetics that traditional cameras can't do.
The ability to manipulate raw motion images with the same power and creative flexibility that one can do with raw stills is very appealing. It is not a universal replacement for other cameras, it is a unique alternative.
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This is a great way of thinking about it. I'm in the same boat. I care more about creative flexibility and options than about getting close to "industry standard". The further from industry standard, the better. For me at least, the 1Dx is looking MUCH more appealing now that we know how conservative Canon's push into digital cinema was. I mean, besides the codec... what does the C300 really even offer over the 1Dx? Not frame-rates. Not sensor size. If they really have fixed the moire, aliasing, and rolling shutter on the 1Dx... then I'll it's 4:2:0's 300mb/s all-I frame codec... with a FF sensor, than the C300's APS-c with 4:2:2.

Just think how sexy clean properly sampled FF images are going to look... :2vrolijk_08:

There's also a good chance that the 1Dx's low-light performance will be better than the C300. The C300 may have bigger pixels... but the 1Dx is the absolute PINNACLE of Canon's noise performance technology. Also, the 1Dx is down-sampling more... so the noise should look better and more organic (even if there is more of it)... in theory.
 
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Razz16mm said:
The term DSMC is a RED invented trademark, and these cameras fit the description now. Epic is the first digital motion camera to ever be accepted for stills submission by Getty Images. Side handle has flash sync port on it and a stills/motion switch to change modes. Stills mode firmware version is not finished yet, but as fast and often as Red updates their firmware it will be there long before you ever see a DSLR recording raw motion footage internally or probably even externally.
Scarlet is light for a motion picture camera, full up weight with touchscreen LCD, side handle, battery, and a Canon short zoom falls around 8lbs for Epic from user reports, not as light as a DSLR, but for me it doesn't need to be as i mostly shoot off of either ground or body supports of one kind or another. It is not any heavier than by old Bolex 16mm was.
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Okay, you got me there. We can't use the term DSMC. RED has a lock on that word.

But the concept, as defined in RED's literature, is "no compromise stills and motion capture" (link). At this time Epic has a lot of compromises in stills capture including max 1 sec exposure times and unreliable AF tracking. Even if firmware updates fixed these things, there are many other issues that inherently will not allow an Epic to be a "no compromise" stills camera. Such a camera would be an EOS-1Dx or a Nikon D3. There's no way Epic can take on those cameras in stills capabilities.

However, to be fair, DSLRs have compromises in motion capture. So neither camera technically fits the description now. My point is the DSLR has a greater chance of getting close to that description in the near future. I'm not sure if any camera will every fully realize a "DSMC" type concept. It's probably unrealistic.
 
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Jason Adams said:
Well to be honest Red Over-announced. I think its huge and I think they spanked Canon, but DELIVERY is something RED does not do as well as announcements. We will see what happens.

Canon, like always, was a year late with this cam. The year to put up an F3 competitor was last year.
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I think they pre-sold something like 2,000 Scarlet's. Imagine how long it will take to manufacture 2,000 cameras.
 
thelateshowwithsanjuro said:
It's a hell of a lot more than that now, if the order numbering sequence is anything to go by. Three hours after they started taking orders it was already around 1500 orders.
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Buyers could be waiting until the middle of next year until they get their camera. They don't make their cameras like a Hyundai assembly line. I'd rather keep shooting on what is available right now.
 
powervideo said:
I think they pre-sold something like 2,000 Scarlet's. Imagine how long it will take to manufacture 2,000 cameras.
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If its only 2000 that is like. . .30 million dollars (roughly for 2000 packages). Canon should be really really jealous of those numbers.

. . .and (even though I don't think this will come to be) when is the last time someone manufactured 2000 cameras of any kind in one year in the United States?

All of this and no one really really has even shot a single frame on a full production version. When you think about it this entire thing borders on some kind of serious scariness, it could all go very very wrong rapidly and profoundly (althought I really hope it doesn't).
 
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powervideo said:
Buyers could be waiting until the middle of next year until they get their camera. They don't make their cameras like a Hyundai assembly line. I'd rather keep shooting on what is available right now.
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thelateshowwithsanjuro said:
It's not like buyers have absolutely nothing else to shoot with in the meantime....
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I am just going to throw my FS100 in the bin and eagerly twiddle my thumbs until my RED arrives.
 
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aguia said:
All of this and no one really really has even shot a single frame on a full production version. When you think about it this entire thing borders on some kind of serious scariness, it could all go very very wrong rapidly and profoundly (althought I really hope it doesn't).
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If the camera would not be absolutely stable, this could backfire mightily. I hope the get it neat & clean because I like the concept and the idea of having companies in the market that develop the product from a shooter's perspective. Luckily I don't need to buy: I rent. So I wait happily and excited like a kid in the toy store. More things to play with. Great!
 
I'm mildly bored with both announcements.
Red will never give me what I want: an s35mm HV20 for $2k.
Canon, however, MIGHT.... one day, due to the slow trickle down effect.
Canon gets my vote, just for finally coming late to the party.
Good sign of things to come.
 
Waiting for Panasonic to answer back at Canon & RED. AF200 with 4/3 or S35 sensor with AVC-Intra P2 & 444 sdi/hdmi out priced at $6k...now thats a camera I would pre-order and drool over.
 
Why do people want SDI or HDMI out?

That's going to be a really stupid question to some of you, since so many of you ask for it. For a while I thought it was so that you could use an external recorder, when the camera records only 8-bit, 4:2:0. But that's not the case here. You already are asking for AVCIntra. Then I thought it may be to hook up an on-set monitor, but that seems too clunky for the average independent filmmaker here.

While I'm picking at mysterious feature requests, why 4:4:4? I keep reading that the difference from 4:2:2 is invisible to the human eye. Is it just for the warm, fuzzy feeling of getting it all, or are there practical advantages?

This may sound like a series of smart-aleck questions, but I've been wondering from the sidelines.
 
I think the main idea is to use an external recorder, either for higher bitrates, greater color space or maybe a preferred choice of codec. Personally don't like the hassle of an external recorder so I wish camera manufacturers would just put a wide range of bitrates and codecs in the camera. As for 4:4:4, maybe they need it for compositing or other VFX work?

I'd mainly want HDMI and/or HDSDI to hook up an external monitor. HDSDI is preferred because the BNC connector is natively locking and more robust than HDMI.
 
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