Where to cast?

rsbush said:
Good acting is much more about revealing a great truth about one's self - thus, all of us - under imaginary circumstances. The liar thing is an oversimplification. Just food for thought.
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Yeah, I don't agree. That sounds more like the motivation for the actor to exist as an actor than it does how that actor pertains to a story or audience.

Revealing a great truth about YOU, the ACTOR, is so far removed from the point of the performance (as it pertains to the story and the audience), I can't even express it (IMO).

Lying is an oversimplification for sure. But, at its core, in all human terms, lying is exactly what writers and actors are doing. My position is that the actor is already having to create a performance (and a lie which comes from them denying who they are while inhabiting the character). To burden them further by giving them more secrets to keep (e.g. their character's future), can very well hinder their ability to exist in the immediate, the now.

If an actor has a rich backstory with which to draw from, why in the world do they need to know where they end up? I am not who I am because I know what is going to happen 10 minutes from now. I am who I am because of what is happening now and what has already happened. I write the same way I live. There may be goals for a story (a vision of a moment that might transpire), but just as in life no goal is absolute. But a script IS absolute. A script, once read and committed to, can't be deviated from as it already exists as it should. Minor changes may occur, but who the character will be will not change -- but how they get to their destination might, which is where the collaberation comes in within each scene.
 
Well, I for one agree with you that a film actor doesn't necessarily need to know what their character wouldn't know. No argument from me there.

If all you ask your actors to do is lie, all you will get is a dishonest performance. It's your deal, do what you will. But beware, bad ideas about acting lead to bad acting.
 
Chamber005 said:
Yeah, I don't agree. That sounds more like the motivation for the actor to exist as an actor than it does how that actor pertains to a story or audience.

Revealing a great truth about YOU, the ACTOR, is so far removed from the point of the performance (as it pertains to the story and the audience), I can't even express it (IMO).

Lying is an oversimplification for sure. But, at its core, in all human terms, lying is exactly what writers and actors are doing. My position is that the actor is already having to create a performance (and a lie which comes from them denying who they are while inhabiting the character). To burden them further by giving them more secrets to keep (e.g. their character's future), can very well hinder their ability to exist in the immediate, the now.

If an actor has a rich backstory with which to draw from, why in the world do they need to know where they end up? I am not who I am because I know what is going to happen 10 minutes from now. I am who I am because of what is happening now and what has already happened. I write the same way I live. There may be goals for a story (a vision of a moment that might transpire), but just as in life no goal is absolute. But a script IS absolute. A script, once read and committed to, can't be deviated from as it already exists as it should. Minor changes may occur, but who the character will be will not change -- but how they get to their destination might, which is where the collaberation comes in within each scene.
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We may not know what will happen 10 minutes from now in normal everyday life, but we also don't have high speed car chases, shoot people in the head or fly around the city in a bat suit...At least not in my world... Acting is supposed to be as real as make believe can get. Giving your characters back story is great. Communicating that back story to your actors is even better. I always encourage collaboration. I tend to be a planner in everyday life, so maybe the real me is seeping over into the acting me.... If I get in a car, I want to know where I'm going so I can plan the best route to get there. I don't want to get in a car and say "well, wherever I end up is where I end up" If I ride around for 2 hours only to have fate lead me to the neighbors house, I'm gonna be a little pissed!

Can an actor exist "in the moment" with full knowledge of the script? Oh you'd better believe they can. Just ask the poor girl from a short I did about 3 months ago. She damn near got her head ripped off when her babysitter character neglected to tend to my "character's" kid and said kid ended up falling down the stairs and breaking their neck. The scene that almost took her life away was taking place at the hospital after the incident. My kid was just pronounced dead and this chick had the nerve to say "Look, it's not my fault you have a rowdy son. Well, had a rowdy son". Baby!!!! I was so wrapped up in my moment, I forgot I was acting! We had to cut because I really did try to kill her. I took it too far but what do you want? I was in the "moment". :shocked: I felt terrible and couldn't stop apologizing to the girl but again, I was in the moment.

Of course I knew that later on in the script, said babysitter got all reformed and ended up realizing the error of her ways, blah blah blah...but getting that initial understanding of who my character was, where she was going and the things she would be going through is what made me say YES to this film and prepare my scenes accordingly. It kicked my passion for the project up about a gabillion notches, which is why I think that giving your actors the info is important and trusting them to know what to do with it is even more important.

But alas, I've ranted again. I just want to see your film/nonfilm already!
 
Also, I'd be curious to know how you're preparing to answer questions about your film/nonfilm. What are you saying to people when they want to know what the project is about? If an actor you audition says "can you tell me about my character in the story?" how will you answer that? If an actor does want to see the script, how are you getting out of giving them one?
 
ANGENOUX said:
Also, I'd be curious to know how you're preparing to answer questions about your film/nonfilm. What are you saying to people when they want to know what the project is about? If an actor you audition says "can you tell me about my character in the story?" how will you answer that? If an actor does want to see the script, how are you getting out of giving them one?
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To your previous post: Your ranting is awesome and enjoyable. No need to excuse it. :D

And as for seeing it, that's going to be a while. Basically the piece was initially supposed to exist one way, which included an online presence, but the investors who are helping me urged me to take things a step further, so that's what I'm doing.

During the "beta-test" of the piece people who saw portions from the original shoot did indeed ask what the hell it was all about, and that was an error of the delivery system I was using, hence the new format. I personally underestimated the average viewer's laziness when it comes to entertainment. Thus comics had to become animation, prose had to become poetry, see? The format needed to adapt to its audience, which I'm totally sympathetic to and want to give myself the best chance possible to reach them.

Obviously in regards to money matters I don't have any need to explain anything to anyone because that's already taken care of (though a small budget, it's all fixed and settled to complete the piece with a little room to breathe).

If/when an actor asks about their character's role and their role in the story and the story itself, of course I'll go into as much detail as possible with them. Funny enough I find myself wanting to give actors MORE information than they need and they typically end up shooing me away.

With the exception of some of the child actor stuff (which I'm hoping to fill up using actor and other friends' children if at all possible), all of the roles being cast have already been structured around models. (e.g. I hired and had some models come on for free to fill up certain aspects of the piece that didn't pertain yet to that original beta-test. I was able to do photo shoots and stuff with them, let them give some character insights, etc. But in the end I had to let them go because they were all models, not actors (and one even needs to be an actor/musician).

So I feel using the photos and stuff might help the actors along the way as well? Obviously there is tons of artwork that's been done by myself and also by hired professionals regarding their characters that should also assist in gathering their interest. In the end, though, I'm probably going to pick the people who myself and the rest of the actors get along with best and who is a good fit for the part. I would rather pick someone who isn't quite as good for the part but is a hoot to have around rather than get the best actor but who is also the biggest brat. Obviously if awesome person and awesome actor collide, that is most awesome. ;)
 
DJDecay said:
@Chamber005 - So what exactly is the problem with WGA registering your screenplay and giving it to potential actors again? ($22.00 USD for non-members)

It's not like you're shooting a reality TV show or LOST where "leaking" can be attributed to direct fiscal loss (and these factors are _always_ associated with network run episodicals..)

If there is a twist, just withhold that page until shooting starts..
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Well on the business side of things there's more than just registering copyrights involved, there's also trademarks as well as to finish forming the LLC-production-specific corporation for the piece, which all has to be solidified before I can approach anyone new not already associated with the project.

So at this point everything is on lock down regardless of what creative measures might be taken moving forward. Once all of the legal stuff is out of the way and all the necessary contracts are completed by the cast and crew that's already on the project, we'll start the auditioning process and finish scouting the last couple of locations. This does not prevent us from continuing to film what we've been filming, it only prevents me from bringing on anyone new.

Once I'm legally able to move forward I'm going to start the audition process for the final set of actors and decide based on those auditions and the actors that I would like to be involved with, how and in what volume I'll work with them on the script.

This is my first time really working with other people's money or having to go through all of these legal hoops. This is also my first time having to audition people for something I'm going to film. So the entire thing is a process, and near the bottom of my list right now is getting the script into the hands of a bunch of actors. Maybe in other cities things are different, but in Chicago we literally have accomplished actors, musicians and improv artists falling out of the woodwork. I'm confident that regardless of whatever creative process I use regarding the script-actor relationship I'll be able to secure the talent I want.

The thing that we've been debating here is, after securing said talent, how can a director get the best possible performance out of them? Most of the actors here seem to feel that I should give them all of the secrets to bear, while my position is that the actor should be burdened only by the present, not their future.
 
You have to trust your actors. Just communicate with them. Every actor is different. Some want to know the future so they can get a good grip on their character and the project that they're being asked to commit to. Some only want to learn and gain experience. I've seen some actors ask a lot of questions and some ask very little. I've also seen directors want to give as much information as possible and I've seen others want the actor to be free to explore and create. So I think it varies and you'll find out what works for you once you start working with your actors. I would think that giving them a script and letting them prepare before hand and then redirecting their performance to reflect what you've envisioned could only help your schedule move quicker. Think about what you really want from your actors and how much time you want to spend getting it.

About 3 years ago, I was as a casting director on an indie film where the director only wanted to work with new actors. His thoughts were that he could mold them into what he wanted them to be for his film since they were new and hadn't yet mixed their raw talent with so many methods and training from various teachers yet. This was a full length feature film. When the original lead for the film auditioned, I not only said "NO" I said "HELL NO". This kid screamed "newbie", had no on set experience or training. He was a nice guy but he was a cluster f*ck".

When we brought in other actors to read with him, it was a nightmare. Every read became an acting class. It was extremely frustrating for myself, the newbie actor and the other actors but, in the end, the director got this kid exactly where he wanted him to be. It just took way too much time to do it and he's already said that he'd never cast a movie that way again.

So that's why I ask, how much time do you want to spend on your actors? If you want to spend forever, don't give them the script or time to prepare, just try your best communicate what you want their performance to be. If you want them to hit the ground running, spend some time explaining the piece and their character. Tell them what you want from their performance, give them the script and let them do their thing.
 
ANGENOUX said:
You have to trust your actors. Just communicate with them. Every actor is different. Some want to know the future so they can get a good grip on their character and the project that they're being asked to commit to. Some only want to learn and gain experience. I've seen some actors ask a lot of questions and some ask very little. I've also seen directors want to give as much information as possible and I've seen others want the actor to be free to explore and create. So I think it varies and you'll find out what works for you once you start working with your actors. I would think that giving them a script and letting them prepare before hand and then redirecting their performance to reflect what you've envisioned could only help your schedule move quicker. Think about what you really want from your actors and how much time you want to spend getting it.

About 3 years ago, I was as a casting director on an indie film where the director only wanted to work with new actors. His thoughts were that he could mold them into what he wanted them to be for his film since they were new and hadn't yet mixed their raw talent with so many methods and training from various teachers yet. This was a full length feature film. When the original lead for the film auditioned, I not only said "NO" I said "HELL NO". This kid screamed "newbie", had no on set experience or training. He was a nice guy but he was a cluster f*ck".

When we brought in other actors to read with him, it was a nightmare. Every read became an acting class. It was extremely frustrating for myself, the newbie actor and the other actors but, in the end, the director got this kid exactly where he wanted him to be. It just took way too much time to do it and he's already said that he'd never cast a movie that way again.

So that's why I ask, how much time do you want to spend on your actors? If you want to spend forever, don't give them the script or time to prepare, just try your best communicate what you want their performance to be. If you want them to hit the ground running, spend some time explaining the piece and their character. Tell them what you want from their performance, give them the script and let them do their thing.
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I hear ya, but honestly on this piece, for the roles that haven't been cast yet, they're all pretty minor in what I need from them. Two of them are probably only going to have 2-3 days of shooting total.

And each of them ARE getting their character's script (their character's movie), but only as it pertains to the immediate, not as it pertains to the piece as a whole. I'm confident that they'll understand their position and motivation and will not need to understand the entirety of the piece in order to get excited about their role in the project or their character's specific story.

I've used the Hamlet to Richard analogy a bunch of times, but maybe I should talk more in terms of fictional universes (since Hamlet and Richard don't necessarily inhabit the same fictional universe, though I personally believe they do). The piece I'm doing is about creating a universe. In that universe there are stories that concern a variety of people, some people's whose only relation to one another (thus far) is about them both being an aspect of the same universe, see?

So pretend for a moment that Dracula, the Wolfman and Frankenstien's monster and their stories all exist in the same reality (or, storyline). You wouldn't talk to the actor playing Dracula about the storylines of the Wolfman or Frankenstien's monster -- that would completely undermine and can have dramatic consequences to Dracula's story and the actor who is playing him.

So now we're on the same page, right?
 
Chamber005 said:
I hear ya, but honestly on this piece, for the roles that haven't been cast yet, they're all pretty minor in what I need from them. Two of them are probably only going to have 2-3 days of shooting total.

And each of them ARE getting their character's script (their character's movie), but only as it pertains to the immediate, not as it pertains to the piece as a whole. I'm confident that they'll understand their position and motivation and will not need to understand the entirety of the piece in order to get excited about their role in the project or their character's specific story.

I've used the Hamlet to Richard analogy a bunch of times, but maybe I should talk more in terms of fictional universes (since Hamlet and Richard don't necessarily inhabit the same fictional universe, though I personally believe they do). The piece I'm doing is about creating a universe. In that universe there are stories that concern a variety of people, some people's whose only relation to one another (thus far) is about them both being an aspect of the same universe, see?

So pretend for a moment that Dracula, the Wolfman and Frankenstien's monster and their stories all exist in the same reality (or, storyline). You wouldn't talk to the actor playing Dracula about the storylines of the Wolfman or Frankenstien's monster -- that would completely undermine and can have dramatic consequences to Dracula's story and the actor who is playing him.

So now we're on the same page, right?
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Yes, I believe we finally are :cheesy: With this explanation, I get it. So have you found a place to list your casting notice and hold your session? LOL, that was your original question right?
 
ANGENOUX said:
Yes, I believe we finally are :cheesy: With this explanation, I get it. So have you found a place to list your casting notice and hold your session? LOL, that was your original question right?
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LOL

I have the place to hold the auditions, yeah. I think it will be a really comfortable, professional environment.

I have not, though, done anything about starting the casting process for the final roles, though. That should happen in the near future.

And hey! You and anyone over here in the acting threads should check out my "When the Stars are not aligned" thread over in the Business/Post Production section. I think it TOTALLY applies to actors and I'd love to get additional feedback on that discussion!
 
iain.bason said:
So what do you do for take 2?
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lol This was just an example of the way a lot of horror directors, like Wes Craven, work on set. Since I've never made a horror movie with a boogeyman in it I posed the analogy as a theoretical circumstance, not necessarily to be taken literally. But, theoretically, I guess you'd hide him in a different close or room.
 
I'm looking for an actor named Chris for a short film, a portrait of an ex-Navy pilot. I wonder if Steppenwolf has casting files? Chris if you see this wouldn't that be the miracle, I'm at jackson.goes (at) gmail.com, or 508-749-6150
 
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