Where to Buy Lighting/Grip Equipment?

T

TWJP

Active member
Hey all --

I'm now in the market for 1200w HMI (w/ballast and 12ft stand), a tungsten kit to complement it, as well as flags and C-stands.

Does anyone have suggestions on brand names and stores? (probably online, as I'm based in Phoenix, AZ)

I'd like to keep cost down without going for the super-cheap... basically, as low a price as I can get while still maintaining quality, sturdiness and workmanship. I don't need to invest in a pile of junk, basically.

I know Arri is a solid name brand, but if there's anything maybe one notch below their pricing that's still sturdy, I'd really appreciate someone pointing me in the right direction!

Thanks!
 
Arri
Mole Richardson
K5600
CoolLights

Try some of those.

As for a place to order... Filmtools, B&H, etc.
 
Get an Arri HMI

Mole for your tungsten units.

Flags...doesn't matter too much, just don't get the road rags kit or anything. You can get a decent set of flags from Matthews.

Then for the grip gear, don't get anything but American. You'll thank yourself later. Especially when getting C-stands.

Again, where to order, pyramid films is great, but also just shop around on craigslist. You can find some great deals on there.
 
I've heard really good review about the k5600 units. One of the gaffers I worked with had one and he loved it. Research a bit and I'm sure you'll eventually find out what's the best for you.
 
TWJP said:
I'm now in the market for 1200w HMI (w/ballast and 12ft stand) ... Does anyone have suggestions on brand names ..... I'd like to keep cost down without going for the super-cheap... basically, as low a price as I can get while still maintaining quality, sturdiness and workmanship. I don't need to invest in a pile of junk, basically.... I'd really appreciate someone pointing me in the right direction!
Click to expand...

Buying a used 1200W HMI light has got to one of the hardest lights to buy. Because of the constant improvement in HMI technology there are many options available and if you are not careful you can get stuck with a lemon. In head design you can choose not only between Fresnel or Par, but also the older double ended globes verses the newer single ended globes. In ballast design you have a choice between magnetic and electronic ballasts; and to complicate matters even more, you have a choice between Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts and non-Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts.

The basic difference in head design between a Fresnel and Par is that a Fresnel gives you less output for the wattage, but the light is crisp and you will be able to cut a clean shadow edge. A Par on the other hand will give you more output, but the light is sloppy and you will not be able to cut a clean shadow edge. The newer single ended globes put out approximately 10% more light than the older double end globes and allowed manufacturers to make a more compact head design. The newer single ended heads are smaller and lighter for that reason.

In regard to ballasts, Power Factor Correction (PFC) is very new in 1200W HMIs and so you will not find it in a used ballast. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were not be even familiar with Power Factor Correction in HMI ballasts. Since Power Factor Correction (PFC) is not mandated in this country, as it is in Europe for any electrical device that draws more than 75W, we are pretty much ignorant of Power Factor and effect that poor Power Factor can have on a distribution system. However, any film technician familiar with large HMI heads will be quite familiar with Power Factor and Power Factor Correction (PFC.) That is because after a false start back in the 90s, all major manufacturers now include PFC circuitry in HMI ballasts in the 6-18kw range. They do so by necessity. The early line of Lightmaker electronic ballasts were nick named by film electricians “Troublemaker” ballasts because they were not Power Factor Corrected and proved that PFC circuitry was absolutely necessary in large ballasts to reduce heat and returns on the neutral, and to increase ballast reliability (beware, some are still kicking around ebay). But, because of the added cost, weight, and complexity of PFC circuitry, ballast manufacturers in the US still only offer PFC circuitry as an option in medium-sized 2.5-4kw ballasts. And, until very recently manufacturers did not offer PFC circuitry in HMI ballasts smaller than 2.5kw in the US (in the EU PFC circuitry in mandatory in all HMI ballasts sold.)

Part of the reason was that PFC circuitry did not offer a huge advantage when plugging into house power. A typical 1200W Power Factor Corrected electronic HMI ballast will draw 11 Amps at 120 Volts verses the 19 Amp draw of a non-PFC electronic ballast. While not a huge advantage when plugging into house power, the added efficiency of a PFC 1200 ballast can make a huge difference when powering a lighting package off of a portable generator. For example, when you consider that a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 draws only 2 amps, the 8 Amp difference between using a PFC 1200W electronic ballast and standard non-PFC 1200W electronic ballast, can mean the difference between running four additional Parabeam 400s on a portable generator or not – I think you would have to agree that is a major boost in production capability and pertinent to any one using a portable generator as their principle source of set power. Unfortunately, it is still the case that almost every 575 - 1200 W electronic ballast that you will find in a rental house or for sale used in North America will be a non-PFC electronic ballast.

Where I am just about out of space I will pick up with the advantages to using older magnetic ballasts over non_PFC electronic ballasts in a subsequent post.

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip Boston.
 
nejuicer said:
Where I am just about out of space I will pick up with the advantages to using older magnetic ballasts over non_PFC electronic ballasts in a subsequent post.
Click to expand...

Depending on the type of filming you do, you may in fact be better served by an older magnetic ballast over a non- Power Factor Corrected electronic ballast. A 1.2kw electronic ballast draws 19amps ( verses the 13.5 amps of a magnetic ballast) so it will always trip the common 15amp house circuit and will trip a 20 Amp circuit if there is something else, like a computer or light, on the same circuit. Where you can't always know what else is on the same circuit, or even if it is a 20 or 15 Amp ciruit, a 1.2kw magnetic ballast drawing only 13.5 Amps is the safer bet since it can operate on a 15 amp circuit even with other things on the circuit. Non-Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts are meant to be used on film sets where every circuit is 20 Amps and you know what is on the circuit because you are distributing the power yourself from a tie in or generator. If your style of shooting requires that you plug into wall outlets, you will be better served by a magnetic ballast.

But that is not the only benefit to using a magnetic ballast over a non-PFC electronic ballasts. If you don’t have access to the newest PFC electronic ballasts, the older magnetic ballasts are in fact cleaner running on portable gas generators than non-PFC electronic ballasts. As mentioned above the harmonic distortion created by non-PFC ballasts reacting poorly with the distorted power waveform of conventional AVR generators limited the number of HMIs you could power on a portable generator. The primary factors limiting the use of HMIs on portable generators has been the inefficient use of power by non_PFC electronic ballasts and the harmonic noise they throw back into the power stream. The adverse effects of this harmonic noise, can take the form of overheating and failing equipment, efficiency losses, circuit breaker trips, excessive current on the neutral wire, and instability of the generator’s voltage and frequency. For these reasons it has never been possible to operate more than a couple of 1200W HMIs on a conventional 6500W portable gas generator. Harmonic noise of this magnitude can also damage HD digital cinema production equipment, create ground loops, and possibly create radio frequency (RF) interference. The increasing use of personal computers, hard drives, and microprocessor-controlled recording equipment in production has created an unprecedented demand for clean, reliable power on set.

However, now that inverter generators, like the Honda EU6500is, do not require crystal governors to run at precisely 60Hz, magnetic ballasts offer a cost effective alternative to dirty non-PFC electronic ballasts because you can operate magnetic HMI ballasts “flicker free” on inverter generators. And as mentioned above, the smaller magnetic ballasts (575-2500W) offer the distinct advantage of being less expensive and draw less power (once they have come up to speed) than the commonly available non-PFC electronic equivalents (13.5A versus 19A for a 1.2kw.)

Of course there are downsides to using magnetic ballasts. One down side is that you are restricted to using only the safe frame rates and shutter angles. But, when you consider that every film made up to the early 1990s were made with magnetic HMI ballasts you can see that being limited to the safe frame rates is not all that restrictive. Another downside to magnetic ballasts is that you can’t load the generator to full capacity because you must leave “head room” for their higher front end striking load. When choosing HMIs to run off portable generators, bear in mind that magnetic ballasts draw more current during the striking phase and then they “settle down” and require less power to maintain the HMI Arc. By contrast, an electronic ballasts “ramps up”. That is, its’ current draw gradually builds until it “tops off.”

While older HMIs with magnetic ballasts are less expensive to purchase or rent, Power Factor Correction (PFC) makes the newest electronic ballasts worth the extra money when it comes to lighting with portable generators. The substantial reduction in line noise that results from using power factor corrected ballasts on the nearly pure power waveform of an inverter generator creates a new math when it comes to calculating the load you can put on a generator. In the past we had to de-rate portable gas generators because of the inherent short comings of conventional generators with AVR and Frequency governing systems when dealing with non-PFC electronic ballasts. The harmonic distortion created by non-PFC ballasts reacting poorly with the distorted power waveform of conventional AVR generators limited the number of HMIs you could power on a portable generator to 75% of their rated capacity (4200Watts on a 6500W Generator). But now, where inverter generators have virtually no inherent harmonic distortion or sub-transient impedance and power factor correction (PFC) is available in small HMI ballasts, this conventional wisdom regarding portable gas generators no longer holds true. Where before you could not operate more than a couple 1200W HMIs with non-PFC electronic ballasts on a conventional generator because of the consequent harmonic distortion, now according to the new math of low line noise, you can load an inverter generator to capacity. And if the generator is one of our modified Honda EU6500is inverter generators, you will be able to run a continuous load of up to 7500W as long as your HMI and Kino ballasts are Power Factor Corrected.

Now I think you can see why buying a used 1200W HMI light has got to one of the hardest lights to buy. Here are some links to online film forums that might help.

“What is Power Factor Correction in HMIs “available online at http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=205548

“HMI Lights” available online at
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35706

If you haven't already, I would suggest you read the article I wrote for our company newsletter on the use of portable generators in motion picture lighting. In it I cover some of the basic electrical engineering principles behind poor Power Factor, the harmonic distortion it can generate, and how it can adversely affect generators. The article is available at http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html.

As far as used HMIs that are available for sale I would caution you against buying lights with used Lightmaker Electronic Ballasts. As mentioned above Lightmaker ballasts were the first generation of non-PFC electronic ballasts made and were nicknamed the “Troublemaker” ballasts because of the problems they caused. While the Power Gem ballasts that you will sometimes see on ebay are of a later generation, they are also non-Power Factor Corrected ballasts.

Good Luck,

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip Boston
 
People recommending Pyramid Films... You clearly didn't check out their website in a long time as for at least a few months now they only offered some high power "junk."
 
If you're trying to save some cash...

For the basic 6" fresnel, look at L&E brand (usually through theatrical supply houses) - which are the same lights Altman sells. You can get a new one for under $100, they go to 650 watts, and you'll need a switch and a spud. The L&E/Altman 8" is a really nice light as well, and goes to 2K. Here's a page from a theatrical supply house. Moles are great but a focusing fresnel is a focusing fresnel. I can't see spending $375 for a used 1k light just because it's dark red...

I use open faced lights more than enything else (for well-lit interiors, green screen, bounce, etc). I favor the long-bulb style similar to Lowell Tota - but I hate Totas (overpriced and the "barn doors" are useless). Just save the link for eBay's continuous lighting category, check it every few days with "used" selected. Look for Colortran open-faced lights with 4 barn doors (L&E makes a great open light as well). Try to collect as many open units you can get with the same bulb size. The Total-style bulbs range from 100-1000 watts; you can keep a set of different wattages with you and not need a massive inventory for different lamp sizes.

Here's an altman/L&E version for $200.

Roger Deakins (Coen bros., etc) suggests your first light should be a blonde, and learn to bounce and diffuse with it. But a work light, an open faced, even a par can will give you the same utility (though you'll max out at about 1k). If you're new to all of this, you may find working with lower powered fixtures in the up-to-1K range to be more useful with household power.

If you can grab any 3" fresnels (usually 100 - 300 watts range) get some - they're really handy. (The link above has one for like $90 I think?) Often see these on eBay for cheap.

For grip, Matthews, Avenger and American are all very good. It's hard to find used C-stands , and the shipping will kill ya- if you're in a large city or visiting one, visit the pro photo stores and get 2 - 4. I strongly suggest you get the "turtle base" - the stands where the leg unit pops off. Easier to transport. While you're at it, get a couple "butt plugs" (actually a junior-to-baby pin, which turns the leg unit into a floor stand). Consider getting a 20" riser to work with the turtle base when you need a lower stand. Get a knuckle arm and a 2nd grip head for each stand.

Buy up all the grip heads you can find, and get some 3 and 4 foot lengths of 5/8 aluminum from filmtools.com - booms are really handy.

And do check pyramid films often - their stock comes and goes, but they'll answer their phone, do a custom package, their shipping is reasonable, and you can find some deals (picked up 2 beefy baby 14' stands for $150... a 1k Leko for $40... etc... passed up a hi-hi for $150 - what was I thinking???)
 
Thanks for all the replies! I've been checking out every link as they're posted.

I just got a used Mathews combo stand (for our 1200w HMI) for $100, from a local rental house.

Michael Carter said:
If you're trying to save some cash...


Roger Deakins (Coen bros., etc) suggests your first light should be a blonde, and learn to bounce and diffuse with it. But a work light, an open faced, even a par can will give you the same utility (though you'll max out at about 1k). If you're new to all of this, you may find working with lower powered fixtures in the up-to-1K range to be more useful with household power.
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of Deakins. and I believe he suggests that because they're a pain in the ass to use. ;)

On a serious note, I'm staying away from open-face for now, because we plan mostly for horror (hard light, shadows, etc). And I can diffuse/bounce the fresnels when needed. I understand your point though, that learning how to control an open faced light is a big asset to have.
 
Yep, the open face lights are great when you need a lot of soft light. Well, with good barn doors you can do a lot with 'em when you're at higher ISOs or smaller f-stops. Sometimes it's really handy to be able to make a rectangular shape with lights.
 
Anyone interested in some of this GRIP equipment ????

Anyone interested in some of this GRIP equipment ????

hi im in the LOS ANGELES (san fernando valley) and wanted to know if anyone is interested in any of this grip equipment ???:undecided

my number is (818) 232-2967

(2) C-STANDS HEADS & ARMS (SHORT)
(2) LOW CENTURY STANDS
(28) CENTURY STANDS
(8) HIGH ROLLER STANDS
(2) MEDIUM HIGH ROLLER STANDS

(3) 20' x 20' FRAME
(1) 20' x 20' SINGLE NET
(1) 20' x 20' DOUBLE NET
(1) 20' x 20' SILK
(6) 20' x 20' SOLID BLACK
(4) 20' x 20' GRIFFOLYN/BLACK/WHITE
(2) 20' x 20' LITE GRID CLOTH

(3) 12' x 12' FRAMES
(3) 12' x 12' SINGLE NET
(2) 12' x 12' DOUBLE NET
(2) 12' x 12' SILK
(2) 12' x 12' SOLID BLACK
(3) 12' x 12' GRIFFOLYN/BLACK/WHITE
(1) 12' x 12' GRIFFOLYN/WHITE
(2) 12' x 12' BLEACHED MUSLIN
(1) 12' x 12' LITE GRID CLOTH

(1) 6' x 6' FRAME
(1) 6' x 6' SINGLE NET
(1) 6' x 6' DOUBLE NET
(1) 6' x 6' SILK
(1) 6' x 6' SOLID BLACK
(1) 6' x 6' GRIFFOLYN/BLACK/WHITE
(1) 6' x 6' LITE GRID CLOTH
(1) 6' x 6' BLEACHED MUSLIN

(1) REFLECTOR BOX (4 PLACES)
(4) REFLECTORS (SILVER)
(4) REFLECTOR STANDS (COMBO TYPE)
(1) LOW COMBO STAND

(2) 6' PARALLELS (4 SIDES)
(4) PARALLEL TOPS
(5) PARALLEL HAND RAILS
(8) PARALLEL POSTS
(8) PARALLEL WHEELS
(8) PARALLEL SCREW JACKS
(8) PARALLEL FEET
(24) PARALLEL LOCKING PINS

(2) 4' LADDERS
(2) 6' LADDERS
(1) 8' LADDER
(1) 10' LADDER
(1) 32' EXTENSION LADDER

(12) FULL APPLE BOXES
(12) HALF APPLE BOXES
(8) QUARTER APPLE BOXES
(3) PANCAKE APPLE BOXES

(12) CLIP BLOCKS (1 SET)
(2) STAIR BLOCKS (1 SET)

(2) BOXES OF WEDGES
(2) BOXES OF 2x4 CRIBBING
(1) BOX OF 2x12 CRIBBING

(1) CAMERA CARPET
(1) CAMERA TIE DOWN SET

(1) UMBRELLA
(1) LARGE TACO CART

(2) 20LB SHOT BAGS
(15) 35LB SAND BAGS
(15) 25LB SAND BAGS

(2) JUNIOR PIPE HANGERS
(8) FURNITURE PADS
(1) WESTERN DOLLY WITH PUSH BAR
(1) FLAG AND SKRIM BOX
(1) HAND CART
(1) BULL HORN
-
(1) 42" x 42" GOLD BOUNCE SLIP ON

(2) 48" X 48" SINGLE NETS
(2) 48" X 48" DOUBLE NETS
(2) 48" X 48" SILKS
(6) 48" X 48" SOLID FLAGS W/ FLOP
(8) 48" X 48" EMPTY FRAMES
(1) 48" X 48" WOOD KOOK
(2) 48" X 48" LITE GRID CLOTHS

(1) 24" x 36" LAVENDER SKRIM
(3) 24" x 36" SINGLE SCRIM
(3) 24" x 36" DOUBLE SCRIM
(2) 24" x 36" SILK OPEN ENDS
(6) 24" x 36" SOLID FLAGS
(1) 24" x 36" WOOD KOOK
(2) 24" x 36" EMPTY FRAMES
(2) 24" x 36" METAL FLAGS

(1) 10" x 24"LAVENDER SCRIM

(3) 18" x 24" SINGLE SCRIMS
(3) 18" x 24"DOUBLE SCRIMS
(2) 18" x 24"SILK OPEN ENDS
(6) 18" x 24"SOLID FLAGS
(2) 18" x 24"EMPTY FRAMES
(2) 18" x 24"METAL FLAGS
(1) 18" x 24"WOOD KOOK

(2) 10" x 42" SOLID CUTTERS

(2) 18" x 48"SOLID CUTTERS

(2) 24" x 72" SOLID CUTTERS W/ FLOP

(2) 2 x 4 WOOD STICKS
(2) 4 x 4 WOOD STICKS

(6) FLEX ARMS

(1) 10" x 12" LAVENDER SCRIM
(2) 10" x 12" SINGLE SCRIMS
(2) 10" x 12" DOUBLE SCRIMS
(2) 10" x 12" SILK OPEN ENDS
(2) 10" x 12" SOLID FLAGS
(1) 12" x 20"LAVENDER SCRIM
(2) 12" x 20"SINGLE SCRIMS
(2) 12" x 20"DOUBLE SCRIMS
(2) 12" x 20"SILK OPEN ENDS
(2) 12" x 20"SOLID FLAGS

(2) 2" X 14" LAVENDER FINGERS
(2) 2" X 14" SINGLE FINGERS
(2) 2" X 14" DOUBLE FINGERS
(2) 2" X 14" SILK FINGERS
(2) 2" X 14" SOLID FINGERS

(2) 4" X 14" LAVENDER FINGERS
(2) 4" X 14"SINGLE FINGERS
(2) 4" X 14"DOUBLE FINGERS
(2) 4" X 14"SILK FINGERS
(2) 4" X 14"SOLID FINGERS

(2) 1 x 1 MIRRORS WITH FOAM CORE PLATE
(1) 8"LAVENDER DOT
(2) 8"SINGLE DOTS
(2) 8"DOUBLE DOTS
(2) 8"SILK DOTS
(2) 8"SOLID DOTS

(2) 6"SINGLE DOTS
(2) 6"DOUBLE DOTS
(2) 6"SILK DOTS
(2) 6"SOLID DOTS
(2) 6"LAVENDER DOTs

(2) 8' SPEED RAIL PIPES 1 1/4"
(2) SOLID CROSS SPEED RAIL FITTINGS
(2) SWIVIL TEE SPEED RAIL FITTINGS
(2) SPLIT CROSS SPEED RAIL FITTINGS

(2) 1x3 HOLDERS w PIN

(10) 2" C-CLAMPS
(4) 4" C-CLAMPS
(4) 6" C-CLAMPS
(4) 8" C-CLAMPS
(4) 10" C-CLAMPS

(6) BABY NAIL ON PLATES
(6) JR. NAIL ON PLATES

(2) 10" C-CLAMP w/PIN
(4) 8" C-CLAMP w/PIN
(4) 6" C-CLAMP w/PIN
(2) 4" C-CLAMP w/PIN
(2) 2" C-CLAMP w/PIN w / JR RECIEVER
(2) C-CLAMP w BRANCH GAG

(1) 2x4 WALL SPREADER
(1) 2x6 WALL SPREADER

(1) CABLE PULLER
(6) HANDY CLAMPS #3
(36) HANDY CLAMPS #1
(36) HANDY CLAMP #2
(2) PIPE CLAMP WEAR
(2) 2x4 BRACKET w/JR RECIEVER
(2) 24" BAR CLAMPS w/JR RECIEVER
(6) BABY ADAPTERS
(2) 12" FURNITURE CLAMPS w /PIN
(6) MAYFER CLAMPS
(2) DROP CEILING CLIPS w/PIN
(4) 4 1/2" GRIP HEADS (LOLLIPOP)
(2) JR. OFFSET ARM
(2) BABY OFFSET ARM
(2) BODY ?? HOLDERS w PIN
(2) HEAD BOARD CLAMPS wPIN
(2) FOAM CORE PLATES
(6) CHAIN VICE GRIPS
(6) CHAIN VICE GRIPS w/PIN
(10) D-RING CARABEANERS??
(1) JR PIPE RISER
(6) BULL PICK ANGLES
(12) CAMERA STRAPS RACHET??
(6) GUTTER STRAPS 1" WIRING
(1)MATTOCKS PICK
(1)ICE CHEST
(1)FOLDING TABLE
(6)LOW DIRECTORS CHAIR
(1)STRAW BROOM
(1)PUSH BROOM
(6)ROAD CONES
(1)2 GALLON GAS CAN
(3)50' EXTENSION CORD
(1)MILLITARY HITCH
 
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Pyramid has a huge inventory. You must call them. They will most likely have what you need. They are not very good at updating their website.
 
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