Well, there you are wrong, because most of the SDHC cards list their data rate as peak, not continuous. Case in point: the higher GH2 hacks will not record reliably (around 150mbps give or take) on anything less than a Sandisk 95MBps SD card...currently hovering around $200.
Where is Panasonic in this game?
- Thread starter Phil1076
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Well, there you are wrong, because most of the SDHC cards list their data rate as peak, not continuous. Case in point: the higher GH2 hacks will not record reliably (around 150mbps give or take) on anything less than a Sandisk 95MBps SD card...currently hovering around $200.
That's why I said "half-decent". I copy data to and from my Patriot SDHC card via USB 2.0 and it averages around 17MB/s...use the Sandisk 30MB/s cards to be safe and you're golden. And actually, with overhead, the bitrate is more like 10MB/s for AVC-Intra.
I'm not concerned about GH2's or hacks....basic computer terminology dictates that there are 8 bits in a byte.
All you have to do is plug it into any one of the thousands of available unit converters (http://www.numion.com/calculators/units.html) and away you go.
Data rate is data rate, and in the case of video, you get the added benefit that video is written sequentially instead of randomly, which is also faster.
All I'm saying is that the technology is there to allow high bitrate recording to SD (or even CF). If manufacturers lie about their speeds then there's nothing that can be done.
I'm not concerned about GH2's or hacks....basic computer terminology dictates that there are 8 bits in a byte.
All you have to do is plug it into any one of the thousands of available unit converters (http://www.numion.com/calculators/units.html) and away you go.
Data rate is data rate, and in the case of video, you get the added benefit that video is written sequentially instead of randomly, which is also faster.
All I'm saying is that the technology is there to allow high bitrate recording to SD (or even CF). If manufacturers lie about their speeds then there's nothing that can be done.
reliability is a concern for me. maybe its fine for you but 100mbps is still a big number. 50 would be fine for me.
If Panasonic delivered an AF250 with Dual link HD-SDI output before compression, and a less aggressive OLPF (like the one in the GH2--I think Gary mentioned this), I would buy into it. Those are really the only two changes I can think of that would sell me.
I've had a love/hate relationship with M4/3, but I'm gradually becoming tuned to the idea that I'd rather have M4/3 if I'm not shooting 5K/APS-H/Full Frame then M4/3 is pretty darned solid with fast glass.
By fast I mean 2.0 or wider...
Barry_Green
Moderator
There. Fixed it for you.
Barry_Green
Moderator
You could always use the Hyperdeck Shuttle for uncompressed, at $345, and the new one has DNxHD on it (but only, apparently, if you use Avid to edit). Or a Ninja or Samurai for ProRes.
I think the biggest issue with the AF-100 is an over-agressive OLPF. With aliasing and moire on the DSLRs, the engineers seem like they decided to tweak the OLPF so that it would almost never show those issues at the expense of detail. I would much prefer a less agressive OLPF with the detail that can be had from the GH2. Outside of that, I think AVCHD is a fine acquisition codec for lower-level projects, and there are some very fine external recorders. An AF-100 with P2 shooting AVC-Intra would almost never have a reason for an external, which would be nice, especially if we somehow got 10-bit to go along with that.
I think that will happen at some point, the question is merely, "when?" And as a secondary question: can you live with those shortcomings for now?
I think that will happen at some point, the question is merely, "when?" And as a secondary question: can you live with those shortcomings for now?
We had bought two AF100s and sold them in 4months w/o losing money. couldnt stand Pan's PPs. Sony F3 was our choice and we couldnt be more happier with it. Frank (postmaster) has been doing great job for FS100 community by coming up with nice PPs. Unless there would be a new cam announcement from Pan or Sony or Canon at the NAB FS100 will be our Bcam.
Its the song Pana want's you to sing. If you bought the cards, it is more than natural to promote them. We are using SD-cards in the AF100. I have used them in a Sony EX3/EX1 with an adapter. Never lost any data. And you know, compared to P2 cards they are so damned cheap. How come???? So for a higher read/write speed (P2 HD codec) of course the SSD is the medium and is just as good as P2. Higher byte capacity and of course much cheaper. Even a WD 2.5" 7200rpm will do the job, but it's mechanical of course, so not really reliable. What I am pointing out is that we are fed with a memory card format because of profit and nothing else. The card is ok, but it is no standard and therefore Pana can ask you want they want. because they are the only manufacturer.
The card is OK, the price is way too high because only Pana makes it and can charge you whatever they want. Cut the price by 50% and I am all the way with you.
he didnt think 2x crop = s16 did he ?
No .. i didn't ..
And I'm also not talking about full-frame .. I'm talking about S35 sensors ..bigger than the MFT. The S35 sensor's crop factor is about 1.2x0.83. When you're mixing
EOS glass and Cine glass .. it's not too noticeable as you mix and match between cameras.
With the MFTs .. the cine glass is not too noticeable .. the EOS/Nikon glass, the crop starts
to suck (particularly at (cropped) 50mm and below).
Aside from the Voigtlander, none of our MFT lenses have really been jaw-droppers. I'd rather
Panasonic get in the S35 game than wait for the MFT lenses to materialize.
IMHO, S35 is the format that will be converged upon.
And if Panasonic came out with a camera that had an S35 format, recorded to AVCIntra100/Ultra and
onto SSD's .. and had PL mount option .. at around 10K->15K .. I would buy one.
jeff
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...What are you talking about ???
A 50mm lens is a 50mm lens no matter what camera you mount it on.
If I shoot with a 50mm Cine lens on a MFT camera, and then switch to a 50mm EOS/Nikon lens the image will be ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL at the SAME aperture.
Yes the EOS/Nikon glass might not be as sharp because it may be designed for a Full Frame Still Photo sensor ( high end APS-C lenses would not have this problem ), thus the resolution won't be as high as a lens designed for Cine or MFT sized sensors, but other than this you will see pretty much the SAME image.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Price has already come down 98% since they were introduced... Give 'em a little time and they'll be down another 50%. Of course, by that time, people will demand that they be cut by 50% again...
I think people have to understand that a 32 GB P2 card and a 32 GB SDHC card are not the same, that there is a reason why P2 cards cost more.
I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of trade-offs done in the optics with regard to their target
imaging size. In the case of a full format EOS lens, a smaller format sensor is looking down
a different/narrower field of the lens than a larger sensor would. Let's say I take a C-mount 50mm lens
and mount it on the AF100. Chances are, I'm gonna get some sensor coverage problems .. and ..
i'm looking down some parts of the lens that were never meant to be imaged. The converse is also
true .. if I put a full-format EOS on the AF100, particularly the zooms, and I'm now looking down a
much narrower section of the lens .. and if I zoom .. I start to notice some of the imperfections
of the lens.
With the popularity of the 5DMkII .. there's a ton of EOS glass out there .. and the AF100 competes
(especially in the rental market) with full-frame cameras (and we can argue that as a separate
topic).
The S35 sensor format straddles cine-lens and full-format worlds better than MFT does. And, as I said
in a previous post, you're going to get better resolution today with an S35 sensor than MFT.
Your previous arguments have been that future MFT sensors will be as high in resolution as today's S35
sensors are .. and that MFT lenses (particularly par-focal zooms) suitable for video will emerge.
If I were Panasonic .. I'd go for the sure thing.
I agree .. I'm no fan of SDHC .. we've had more than a few die .. their half-life isn't very long .. and we supposedly got the good ****.
I still love the P2 .. although I think a good SSD drive is about as reliable as P2.
well if m43 doesnt work for you, it doesnt. i dont want to waste time convincing anybody really.
p2 vs sdhc - well if you cant afford p2, then you're not its market. i bet if i bought one in 2008, id still be using it now and paid for it ten folds.
ive lost 2 sd cards for the past year. not bad for disposable cheap media really. sd card is surely the economically best choice.
avci100 on sdhc is to great a risk for me.
I would want to first invest on a really really good camera. people would buy p2 cards no matter as long as the camera that uses it kicks ass. a cross between the af100 & hpx250 with all their features combined. featurea like expanded focus, red peaking, shoulder on cine gamma, variable framerate & variable color temp, panasonic-log?, avci100 10bit. everything is too obvious for panasonic not to deliver. maybe they did some market research how much they would sell and it wasnt positive... i can definitely say, a product would sell a lot if you do it right.
p2 vs sdhc - well if you cant afford p2, then you're not its market. i bet if i bought one in 2008, id still be using it now and paid for it ten folds.
ive lost 2 sd cards for the past year. not bad for disposable cheap media really. sd card is surely the economically best choice.
avci100 on sdhc is to great a risk for me.
I would want to first invest on a really really good camera. people would buy p2 cards no matter as long as the camera that uses it kicks ass. a cross between the af100 & hpx250 with all their features combined. featurea like expanded focus, red peaking, shoulder on cine gamma, variable framerate & variable color temp, panasonic-log?, avci100 10bit. everything is too obvious for panasonic not to deliver. maybe they did some market research how much they would sell and it wasnt positive... i can definitely say, a product would sell a lot if you do it right.
No way in hell. P2s have a controller chip and are RAIDed.
This is the right attitude to have.
And it will never happen. Those super expensive (comparatively) Sandisks are the only ones that can reliably write at that rate, and we have no idea how long they would last in a demanding shooting environment using those write speeds.
Different generations of flash technology. The Mac / PC laptop market have driven the
speed and reliability of SSD drives way up. The controller and the RAID on the P2
cards was for both reliability and write speeds.
I'll caveat this in that we've just started using SSD's .. but so far, they've been rock
solid and the AF100's SD cards are purely as backup media. We've lost nothing so
far. You have to get a good SSD drive .. you can't skimp.
The SDHC's .. we had them fail internally and be damaged externally. I consider them
to be a fragile format. With P2, every so often, a clip will get mangled
and sometimes cannot be repaired. With P2, the PCMCIA form factor is dying/has died .. even
on PC's .. so it's an odd format that requires readers.
I feel much more confident with the SSD as the media for the AF100 and encourage Panasonic
to take this route in the future.
jeff
the only way the p2 will go is cheaper by size. 128gb will replace the price of 64gbs and 32 willreplace 16. thousands of cameras use p2 card. from the loely hand helds to the highend eng in broadcast tvs. what panasonic could do is cheaper and faster reader. usb3 or thunderbolt option at a better price than the current one.