Where is Panasonic in this game?

[hscully]

The 2x cropping factor ONLY applies when comparing MFT format to the 35mm Full Frame Still Photo format, NOT 35mm Motion Picture formats.

When compared to the current cine Super35 standard, the MFT crop factor is 1.3

When compared to the current cine Academy standard, the MFT crop factor is essentially 1.0

So MFT fits perfectly in to the world of Motion Picture formats.



I completely disagree here. Likely Panasonic and Olympus will continue to improve the quality of the sensors in their MFT cameras, and should be able to keep them competitive ( at least in the Indie and Prosumer markets ) with the Super35 format cameras.

The 35mm Full Frame Still Photo format is an anomaly in the Cine world, and I don't see it having much impact in the long run. ( Super35 and Academy video formats are here to stay )

+1 Bingo! S35 is the largest that is reasonable because of all the cine glass out there that's made for it. Didn't RED have some initiative for a FF sensor? What happened to that? The 1.3 crop as you point out makes it perfect for use with cine glass. I have invested in m4/3 lenses for wide lenses like the Hyperprime 12mm and the Oly 11-22 (actually 4/3)). The m4/3 enables me to migrate to better cine glass and for that reason alone, I think it's great and will stick.

 

[dcloud]

he didnt think 2x crop = s16 did he ?

 

[Barry_Green]

The issue with MFT with Cine/35mm glass is the 2x crop

but that's a complete misunderstanding. As compared to the movie cameras that that cine glass was made for, the crop factor of the AF100 is a barely-noticeable 1.18.

 

[Barry_Green]

he didnt think 2x crop = s16 did he ?

Don't know. But the AF100 sensor is 2x larger than S16.

 

[Erik Naso]

I think we are all visual people. Take a look at the FOV calculator.

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Super35_and_Techniscope.png

 

[ShawnMi]

---

I think we are all visual people. Take a look at the FOV calculator.

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

Too true. I don't remember who originally potsed this image, but I think it really helps to illustrate how small of a difference we're talking about when disussing s35 (movie) film vs the M4/3 sensor.

 

[TheDingo]

...I think that picture shows 35mm Academy format not Super35. ( but the difference is not huge )

Wikipedia Super 35 Format

 

[ShawnMi]

...I think that picture shows 35mm Academy format not Super35. ( but the difference is not huge )

Wikipedia Super 35 Format

I think you're right... still not a huge difference. Truthfully, I (personally) have had a hard time understanding why so many people are finding the "2x crop" so objectionable (even though it's really 1.18, as Barry points out)... especially since so many of us are coming from 1/3 and 2/3 inch sensors. I have never gone from my HPX500 to my HVX200 and thought, "wow, the crop factor is really noticable". For that matter, I never really thought about it going between the HVX200 and the AF100... I just compose the picture and move on. Maybe it's just me.

Shawn

Shawn

 

[Gary Huff]

Once you actually use a camera with the m4/3 sensor, you realize the crop is a non-issue.

 

[TheDingo]

Truthfully, I (personally) have had a hard time understanding why so many people are finding the "2x crop" so objectionable

I suspect that some of these people may own or are fondly attached to the Canon 5D MK2 camera and Canon EOS lenses, so everything kind of gets skewed through "5D MK2 Glasses"...

 

[Kholi]

Once you actually use a camera with the m4/3 sensor, you realize the crop is a non-issue.

Seriously is not, and if it is, just get a wide angle adapter for your fastest wide OR get a 12/2, 14/2 MFT lens.

Which reminds me, I wish someone would test a 25/0.95 Voigt with a .5x Wide Angle adapter and post video results.

 

[Melvin Harris]

Seriously is not, and if it is, just get a wide angle adapter for your fastest wide OR get a 12/2, 14/2 MFT lens.

Which reminds me, I wish someone would test a 25/0.95 Voigt with a .5x Wide Angle adapter and post video results.

+1

 

[Erik Naso]

The 7D is pretty much the same as S35. I know DP's that prefer it because of the simular dof it gets to S35 and is easier to control focus.

 

[NVentive]

I've got a pair of GH13's, the crop factor is a complete non-issue for me. The codec on the AF100 is an issue for me. I'm about to buy some cameras for a film incubator here, and tend to agree that an AF100, recording in-camera to P2, would be an ideal compromise. I'm not a tech guy and do not understand all the issues, but I have used P2 for years and love the format. For the type of environment that I expect these cameras will live in, I cannot imagine anything better.

 

[Berk]

IMHO,
the sensor size is not the issue. It is the post-processing after the sensor. The Picture Profiles, the colour management bugs the hell of out me. I believe Sony has beaten Pan for that.

 

[Kenny_G]

I've got a pair of GH13's, the crop factor is a complete non-issue for me. The codec on the AF100 is an issue for me. I'm about to buy some cameras for a film incubator here, and tend to agree that an AF100, recording in-camera to P2, would be an ideal compromise. I'm not a tech guy and do not understand all the issues, but I have used P2 for years and love the format. For the type of environment that I expect these cameras will live in, I cannot imagine anything better.

The P2 HD format is nice, but the P2 media sucks in price. For the user a SSD-drive would be much much cheaper solution and better for post if the SSD is removable, but it won't serve Panasonic of course. If you are loaded, no problem, go for the P2 cards. It's a pity, because the new HPX-250 is one hell of a nice product, except for the P2 cards.

 

[TheDingo]

To be a serious player in the pro world I think S35 is pretty much required so cinema glass would be be native FOV.

...I am sure you realize that Super35 is NOT the ONLY standard for "serious player" work.

From my silly naïve perspective, I have always thought that it was what people shot and produced that made them a "serious player", and not how people shot that put them in to this category.

i.e. Lots of award winning work is being shot and produced on non-Super35 formats

 

[Gary Huff]

If you are loaded, no problem, go for the P2 cards. It's a pity, because the new HPX-250 is one hell of a nice product, except for the P2 cards.

First, I'm not loaded, but I have a decent array of P2 cards (2 64GB and 1 16GB). Second, SSDs are not as reliable as P2, and the ones that are verified to be are just as expensive.

 

[Mike Harvey]

...I am sure you realize that Super35 is NOT the ONLY standard for "serious player" work.

From my silly naïve perspective, I have always thought that it was what people shot and produced that made them a "serious player", and not how people shot that put them in to this category.

i.e. Lots of award winning work is being shot and produced on non-Super35 formats

+1

Plus, not everyone using these cameras are using it for narrative work. I'm shooting mostly corporate stuff with my non-S35 AF100. I'm no less a "pro" because of it

 

[Phil1076]

Just FYI,

SDHC cards are more than fast enough to accommodate 100mbit AVC-Intra file speeds. You don't need SSD. 100mbps = ~12.5MB/sec. Any half decent SDHC card can handle this data rate.