Where does the HVX200 fit into Filmmaking?

taubkin said:
I was refering to HDV, not DV. Sure, you will have to have 4 times the space just for starters, but considering the strain HDV puts on the processors, I'd say things are pretty much the same. And HDV is meant to be edited in consumer computers!

Now, I can edit DV in a 3-year-old computer. Not so with HD, but I just want to point out, it's really not that much of a strain. I'm sure my Powermac G4 can handle a DVCProHD short or commercial, even if it takes some additional effort.

It's going to be a kickass cam, I guess we all can feel it!
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It wont be the same.. it will be alot slower, Kinda like cutting HDCAM on your home computer, I had to get a dual Xeon to make it less painful. But, we shall wait and see, I have yet to edit 1080i DVCproHD... actually ive never even seen it, so it will be interesting.
 
RyanF said:
I agree with Collie. You can say $5500, and you can say HD, but you shouldn't say them together.
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Why not? It's a $5500 camera that shoots HD. You have to supply the capturing medium, which could be a P2 card, or a FireStore, or the existing desktop computer you already have.

The JVC HD100 shoots HD, and outputs analog component video. Do we pretend that it doesn't unless you add a $15,000 high-def capture station? It certainly does it, and how you choose to use it is up to you. Multi-camera studio shoots could plug a JVC HD100 (or an HVX or a Z1) in via the component analog outputs, use it in a switched/multicam environment, and never spend a dime on a tape or a P2 card or a firestore. It *is* a high-def camera, at $5995. Recording that is where questions of cost may arise.

What I'm most wondering is will it shoot DVCpro50 to DV tape?
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That was answered long ago -- only miniDV to tape. DVCPRO50 gets recorded to P2 or streamed to the firewire port, for capture via hard disk or other method.
 
Barry_Green said:
Because indie filmmakers, as a general rule, don't have the budget, the insurance policy, or the savvy to rent equipment. They buy their own gear and use it to learn on. They shoot their films over the course of six or seven months, shooting on weekends when they can get the cast together and everybody's available, trying to finagle time around people's work schedules, etc. Or waiting while someone's hair is growing out because they cut it too short, or waiting for a cut or bruise to heal because the actor decided to go motocrossing and ... well, you get the picture. You can't do a picture like that unless you've got your own gear and can pretty much shoot on a moment's notice.
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This was very well said Barry.. it should go in your next book.
 
Barry_Green said:
Why not? It's a $5500 camera that shoots HD. You have to supply the capturing medium, which could be a P2 card, or a FireStore, or the existing desktop computer you already have.
method.
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Yes.. a 35mm camera is a 35mm camera, you dont get the film with it. and if you have ever had to pay 500 bucks for 10 minutes of film like me, the $2000 price tag of the reusable P2 becomes less painful.
 
Thanks Barry that makes sense to me. I can't wait to finally play with this camera a little. I think a bit too much gets made out of the cost of P2 media. I mean, I've had my XL2 for what 5 months? For what I've spent on tape, I could probably own one (reusable) P2 card by now...

Matt
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes.. a 35mm camera is a 35mm camera, you dont get the film with it. and if you have ever had to pay 500 bucks for 10 minutes of film like me, the $2000 price tag of the reusable P2 becomes less painful.
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Amen to that!!

And if it means anything to anybody who cares regarding solid state storage....4GB compact flash cards are around $300-350 right now. 4GB SD cards have been announced to be ready by the end of the year.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7877

I would go out on a limb and *speculate* that the 16GB P2 card won't be far behind.
I just hope the prices keep on comin' down at the steady rate they are now. :thumbsup:

~reservoir~
 
Actually I wasnt ranting at all and yes all of my experiences has been in 35mm,where the 2nd camera was also 35mm . I will not go on about my resume but I have shot a number of features all 35mm,I will admit I am not that well knowledgable in the area of video. I was actually trying to see if the hvx200 would be a good fit for an independent film and I didnt see it at all,not with the option of a sdx900 or a varicam available. I have seen sdx900 footage transfered to 35m and it looked fantastic in my opinion.And, yes coming from a film background the equipment is rented instead of purchased usually. People who respond with cursing are uneducated so that I wont respond to .But ,I have met Jan and she is fantastic and very funny at that but no..... panasonic is not your friends ,they are in the business to make money

Jarred ,Since panny is your friend I wonder if you would give a fair answer to people who may need your help on what to buy or will it be blind product loyality?Wonder how fair that 3 way camera test was also(fx-1,xl2,dvx test)

Last issue of American Cinematographer had a test between Sdx900,xl2 ,dvx and they were surprised that the XL2 was a close second to sdx900 with the dvx a distance 3rd" to quote the magazine

I realize that this forum is a panasonic forum but the" panny can do no wrong attitude "is not so great for people who may need to make a decision on if they should buy or rent a Hd100 .Xl2,SdX900,or some other camera.

I own no video cameras but I do own an ARRI.

I'm also ready for the hate replies from this post
 
Well, I realize that HD will be something I can do without for now. Although a few guys I occasinally work with, shoot HD frequently. It's a $5500 camera that shoots HD. Ok you win. The medium is only going to double that cost.
Barry_Green said:
The JVC HD100 shoots HD, and outputs analog component video. Do we pretend that it doesn't unless you add a $15,000 high-def capture station? It certainly does it, and how you choose to use it is up to you. Multi-camera studio shoots could plug a JVC HD100 (or an HVX or a Z1) in via the component analog outputs, use it in a switched/multicam environment, and never spend a dime on a tape or a P2 card or a firestore. It *is* a high-def camera, at $5995. Recording that is where questions of cost may arise.
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Barry sometimes you make my head spin. Quit it. When I need that camera to shoot HD, I know what it will cost. It *is* a $5995 camera and it *will* cost $10k to shoot HD, DVCpro, DVCpro50. . . anything worth using the camera for.

I'll give you this, a firestore device could change everything for me (save me money) if it was portable enough.

Let's see some footage
 
For $5500 street, I would be willing to purchase a DVX with 16x9 chips if only to have true anamorphic 16x9 without the inherent problems of the PanaAna adapter. With the color and vibe of the DVX, the great onboard XLR audio, and true-blue 24p, it is a solid value.

Even if you NEVER use DVCPRO25,500, or 100 or ever install a single P2 card.

The fact that this thing will do 1080p@24fps and 720p@60fps is icing on the cake, and future-proofs the platform for several years down the road. Whine about the price of P2s--remember what LED calculators or Seiko LCD watches cost in 1970? Hundreds. Now they're almost to the point of being free in CrackerJack boxes. Two years after you own an HVX, and have paid for it many times over in productive work, P2s (or a generic equivalent) will be 64GB and cost $99 at Best Buy.

Yeah, Panasonic is gonna lose a lot of money on this venture. Just like Lee Iacoca did with that stupid "Mustang" car he designed for Ford back in the 60's. Or that worthless iPod thing--who'd ever buy a music player that can't play mp3s? Guaranteed bomb.
 
No hating here, but resolution is not the only criteria for a camera to be judged by. I own DVX100A's and am currently shooting a Doc feature with them. When it came out I was planing on buying an XL2. But when I went to Birns & Sawer and saw the actual footage projected on thier HD projector I just didn't like the look. It was definately sharper, especially in 16:9. However it had a very distinct video feel to it. Highlights clipped hard, shadow transitions were almost linear and this was on the cinema mode. The 24P looked OK but somehow the DVX just felt more film-like. The multiple Cinegammas really help the DVX. If I knew I was going to film out then I might choose to shoot an XL2, because I could get the filmm look fro the actuall film, and a good HD DI. But for broadcast or SD DVD the DVX is much more pleasing an image. Obviously the SDX would be a better option, but then if you know your going to film out, shoot film! I have a Arri 3, and a set of Zeiss Primes and I love to shoot them but I just can't afford to shoot film for anything personal.
What Jarred means by Panasonic are our friends is that Panasonic is almost alone among prosumer and pro video companys that make a direct effort to involve it's consumers in the development of it's products. All of us have suggested to panasonic certain features that although, not used exactly, have shown up in one form or another in the HVX.

The DVX was the first Prosumer DV camera to sell over 1,000,000 units. I think it's because Pany cares what we want. Sure they want money first, but they do have some passion for what they do and they do want to kick Sony's ass!

Panasonic is not infallable, but the do listen and interact with us which is much more than Sony and Canon.
 
Jarred Land said:
It wont be the same.. it will be alot slower, Kinda like cutting HDCAM on your home computer, I had to get a dual Xeon to make it less painful. But, we shall wait and see, I have yet to edit 1080i DVCproHD... actually ive never even seen it, so it will be interesting.
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I'll take your word for it before I try myself to edit 720p on my machine...
 
its still doable... dont get me wrong, its just if you do 5 streams in your timeline its not gonna be as smooth as DV. 720p DVCAM HD isnt that bad, as the ads all show, you can do it on a laptop.
 
1 MILLION? :shocked: Is that a fact? My GOD that's alot of 3-4k cameras SOLD.... if it's true.

I was thinking more along the lines of 100 thousand cameras sold.

Um....let's see.....1,000,000 x $3,995 = $3,995,000,000 - Translation - BLING BLING $$ - 4 Billion Dollars....NO WAY!!

~reservoir~
 
enough of the $5995 for the HVX,,,,it will sell for under $5,000 when it hits the street.

You can shoot in DV and can't you ask a higher price if someone wants HD? Pass the cost on!
 
I'd be interested in waiting a while after the initial release, so it would give movie makers a chance to buy their cameras, make a movie, and sell the camera... to ME! This in itself solves many of the monetary problems people are coming up with. No longer is the camera the full $6000~ and after I buy it I too could sell it. Then again I'd like to see how much my local rental facility will charge.

-Edalgo
 
I would think collie your best bet would be to become educated. You have Jarred and Barry among others with a wealth of knowledge. You admit to not having much knowledge in the realm of video, so why would you question people who do? Why not learn from them as so many of us here have.

I guess ARRI has begun the non profit section of film making? I am surprised for someone who works in film you have not realized the long term potential of P2.

I dont think its about "panny can do no wrong" attitude. We all have are wish list for the camera, nothing is perfect. With that said we are also so excited to have the oppurtunity to work with such an amazing tool. For panasonic to include a tape drive on the HVX in my opinion means that they do care about our needs. I may buy the camera and still shoot SD for now or maybe rent some P2 cards or hook up the laptop. The point is I have a choice.

You seem hung up on the HVX being a fit for indie film making....
Honestly I dont care what camera you own, rent, borrow or steal- without the right talent and crew and so many other facets of production and devolpment involved the concept of "fit" seems irrelevant.

If your problem is the HVX is to close in price to the SDX than maybe you have answered your own question and should be in the market for the SDX. Let us know what yor tab is when all is said and done.
 
orangesaybananas said:
F*** you, too.
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There is a discernable Panasonic bias on this forum, which is understandable given its constituents, but sometimes it develops into an ugly, pack mentality, and bullying.

This observation is not directed at Jarred or Barry or indeed the majority other users who keep their heads out of the muck and engage in lively, intelligent debate.

I've only owned two cameras, both Panasonic - I bought the DVX and I'll probably move on to the HVX (although I'm considering the HD100). Having said that, I sympathise with Collie.

He comes in with a different opinion - maybe he's even got his facts wrong - but I sympathise with him because he raises some questions and as usual, a mob bears down with cheap shots and as he put it "hate replies". Okay, only a couple of posts in this thread fall into this category but I do wonder if the response from orangesaybananas would have passed by without censure if it was not coming from the Panny camp.

A platinum member, Thisiswells, even suggests Collie should be banned. In my day job I tutor students from communist China. Most of them have a similar attitude toward individuals who choose to question orthodox views.

The HVX will be a great camera, but I whole heartedly agree with Collie that Panasonic is a corportation and the nature of corporations is that they want our money. It's that simple. Maybe they've adopted a better approach to getting it than their competition. They listen. That's smart business, and kudos to them. But really, they don't deserve any special favours. Personally I'd find it difficult to regard an international corporation as my friend.

Without people like Collie who raise questions and bring a different perspective to bear, the forum would lose relevance
 
"It's all just so ____ hysterical" Name that movie.

"It's all just so ____ hysterical" Name that movie.

lacuna said:
A platinum member, Thisiswells, even suggests Collie should be banned. In my day job I tutor students from communist China. Most of them have a similar attitude toward individuals who choose to question orthodox views.

Without people like Collie who raise questions and bring a different perspective to bear, the forum would lose relevance
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Collie insulted me in another thread, indeed I didn't appreciate that so much. My remark was meant to be funny. This joke surfaces occasionally; at least I've seen it on here before: the idea of changing the "typeofmember" someone is to indicate the opposite of their position, such as someone who stirs a muck over something repeatedly and for no reason and in lieu of relevant facts. Out of context though, my comment could definitely be viewed in the negative. Thanks for making me aware.

So far as communist China... I spent two weeks there (Hunan University area for five days, Beijing for another three at an "unnamed" English academy, an orphanage in another area, a secondary academy, and Hong Kong for the duration) less than a month after 9/11/01 on a documentary shoot. I know firsthand the Chinese people and believe me, I am not a communist! Hope this helps.

One question: Perhaps is your name Howard Mierzwiak? :huh:
 
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