When is 4k really 4k. On Bayer Sensors and resolution (Alister Chapman)

[Kholi]

OP and Gary have good points.

1080 is enough for distribution and broadcast for sure. Resolution is great to have when you can afford it, it allows you to reframe, great for vfx etc. The flexibility of workin with Redcode and other true uncompressed formats works well for low and high budgets both. On my feature I've run into issues where I need to reframe or the cleanliness of shooting 1600 to 2400 iso night exteriors on the MX allowed us to use 2000W light. Even at 4.5K it looks great. But at 2K the noise vanishes and it's pristine.

That flexibility saved me peace of mind and money.

To me, it also tends to look better when compressed to 1080.

At the end of the day though if you can't ford to carry it through you have to go for the next best thing for your needs. Sounds pretty sane.

 

[Razz16mm]

If resolution is all that matters then why are Red users so worried about this little camera?

After all you can tell stories with resolution, right? And Star Wars (II onward), Benjamin Button, Slum Dog Millionaire, Public Enemies (and a zillion others) aren't professional movies because they aren't 4k, right?

Could it be that with the dynamic range, tonal qualities and quality of pictures from the F3 will provide the true democratization of film making, as Red used to aspire to do?

PS. Pretty hard to post zone plates when no production models are released yet and you're not the owner of the company.

Who's worried? 11 Oscar nominated films shot on Red this year, including some break out Indies, and that was the older M cameras for the most part.

F3 looks like Sony's other high end HD Cine Alta cameras like the F800 (except for DOF) to me. That is nothing to sneer at, they produce gorgeous images. For a Sony camera an F3 is a serious bargain with room to grow. Sony has a long, nearly 10 year development history for Cine Alta, the color matrix is highly refined at this point. Red is just catching its stride.
When you get your F3, give a little nod of thanks in Red's direction for forcing Sony to up its game.

 

[Razz16mm]

I guess it would depend on how much freedom and range you want to have in post grading capability. There is so much more of a palette to work with in RAW. You can precisely choose where to set the boundary between dark details and noise for instance. Or make very subtle changes to color temps by degree, or choose from multiple gamma curves or even create a custom gamma curve. HDRx and true progressive high frame rates in Scarlet and Epic are for me a major plus too.
Some editors complain that Red is hard to grade, but I find the opposite to be true. It is just that you have such a broad range of tools and possibilities it can be harder to make creative decisions quickly. Fewer choices simplify the process. Some are more comfortable with that.
The primary difference with video is that you make your visual choices from what is available in camera and on set and live with the results. Raw shifts more of those choices to the post environment where the tools for critical judgment are better. Different paradigm.

 

[Duke M.]

Who's worried? 11 Oscar nominated films shot on Red this year, including some break out Indies, and that was the older M cameras for the most part.

F3 looks like Sony's other high end HD Cine Alta cameras like the F800 (except for DOF) to me. That is nothing to sneer at, they produce gorgeous images. For a Sony camera an F3 is a serious bargain with room to grow. Sony has a long, nearly 10 year development history for Cine Alta, the color matrix is highly refined at this point. Red is just catching its stride.
When you get your F3, give a little nod of thanks in Red's direction for forcing Sony to up its game.

I apologize if my response was too sarcastic. Thank you for this reasoned response.

Undoubtedly an F3 is not a Red camera. "Different paradigm" sums it up nicely. A different work flow, different order of decisions, different price point, different interactions, etc.

And no doubt that the grade-ability is inherently greater in RAW. However, that doesn't mean any Cinealta camera you make your decisions on set and then are stuck with it. They can all be graded. Especially if you shoot with a Nano (which I do) or a KiPro, etc. S-Log and 4.4.4 should be even better.

The Red One has never been in my affordability range, so I watched the Scarlet developments for years. I had the money set aside. I live a couple miles from the Red store and visit there. I'm still watching, and waiting... It took years to get the R1 stabilized. It gets difficult to listen to Red fanbois tell me how great its going to be.

The F3 will be out in a few weeks and I love the look of the F3 footage. Its just gorgeous. I do thank Janard for pushing Sony into the natural evolution of their camera lines. The jump from my EX1 to an F3 should be seamless and seems to be a natural progression.

The Red is a great camera. The F3 is a trade off for delivery speed, reduced file/storage size, less powerful edit bay needed, etc. If speed, file size, edit bays, etc are important to you then the F3 is a great camera too. If Red users aren't threatened they should respect those choices/values of others.

Again, thank you for your reasoned response.