Whats after the FS 100?

R

rmdorrington

Member
I was just about to pull the trigger on an FS 100, but I shot something this weekend on the PMW EX3, and was really impressed.

I realize they're really different cameras, but I love the ergonomics, and run and gun factor from the EX3. Also with the ND filters I was able to get some really nice shallow DOF. However the FS100 price point is better for me, and I like the option to use my Nikon lenses...

I realize this is an FS100 forum but would you guys recommend buying one now? Or waiting to see what gets released at NAB?
 
If you need it today then buy it today. If you can wait then wait, there will always be a better camera just around the corner. I have been very happy with my FS-100 and I am sure I will be happy with what the next camera.
 
The camera is a ground breaker.

Cheapest Big Chip camera with sound on board. ever.

Its adequate 1080 up to 60p

and has sound - what more does any one want

--

No it doesn't have 15 stops of DR, can't see in the dark, doesn't cope amazingly in super bright sun

But neither does anything else under $50k

Add some accs (lights, reflector) and you can get round those issues)

it doesn't do 500 FPS, 8k Raw or have an onboard coffee maker either

But you can go out and shoot nice stuff

.. as you can with an EX1/3

DSLRs presented a wall to shooting - moire bad monitoring and no sound

FS100 knocked that over

Im good with it, until I can have 500FSPS Raw at 4k, for $3k - Ill upgrade then for sure

Best

SMM
 
I think it simply comes down to your IQ vs. Shooting-style requirements. If you run around a lot, and don't have much time for manual focussing and dealing with shallower DoF, then the EX3 is definitely the way to go, it's a terrific ENG-style camera.

But in terms of image aesthetics and impact, the FS100 completely blows the EX3 out of the water.

They really are very different cameras though, each suited to very different styles of production, so pick the one best suited to the style of work you do.
 
I have shot great stuff with the EX-3. It's a great camera and an awesome product. But nothing in the world would make me give up the uniqueness of the FS100 for an EX3, even though it's definitely much more comfortable to work with in a run/gun shoot. The FS100 is super sensitive, has shallow DOF with some fast glass, and has a great, clean image. That sensor is certainly some nice piece of technology.

You can make the FS100 look like an EX3 anytime, and you can't do the opposite. Granted that the EX3 is adorable to work with, once you hit your head in the wall with the brick-shaped FS100 and it's lack of internal NDs.
 
I was shooting an event with four colleagues last week. We had: an F3 with L Series glass on a big heavy dolly, an FS100 with FD lenses on a cheapo dolly, 3 EX1s and a 5D.

Rick (F3) and I (FS100) got amazing shots, rich and detailed, no horror stories - just the pain of carrying extra glass. But we both turned to our EX1s when it came to shooting presentations, and Rick really enjoyed the simplicity and 'do it all' nature of the EX1. We both agreed we can't sell our EX1s to fund (to pick a camera 'entirely at random') a C300 as the EX1s do what they do so supremely well, and deliver a certain image that our clients want. For some shoots, that is.

But when it came to voxpops, the EX1s, whilst quick to deploy, delivered 'the same old same-old'. It's video. Nice video, but it's video. Professional, clean (ish), sharp, colourful video.

Our interviews were shot on FS100, and they kick serious donkey. The F3 and FS100, if you can deal with wearing a silly jerkin to carry all those lenses, and have an assistant to hold onto stuff and do lens cap duties, could cope with hard core event coverage, but were hard work without that extra pair of hands.

I have to say that the 5D stuff wasn't for our edits. They interviews were great, looked cinematic, but for corporates in our neck of the woods, its the detail and image density that wins. And the horror of finding aliasing or moire (aka 'both') in your shot as you sit down to edit is something I am not keen to repeat. We can't do re-shoots in our line of business.

To be honest, the F3 was a bit overqualified for our shoots.

What absolutely made the difference was battery operated LED lamps and shallow depth of field. I doubt we'd have felt any difference between Cooke cine glass and Nikkor/Canon FD lenses, and lighting every interview - even with teeny weeny LED lamps with dodgy CRI - lifted the look.

I am a dyed in the wool FS100 fanboy, agreed. But for good reason - as Mr Morgan Moore points out: best bang for buck for great pictures. It's not perfect, I am glad to own two EX1s, but I also own a DSLR and a GoPro - and each has its uses. I could sell all and go Scarlet (no thanks) or sell most and go C300 - and I have thought long and hard about that. But the FS100 leaves enough in the bank to allow me to earn money, invest in tripods and lamps and mics, and not have to sell the EX1s which are the camera I'd take if I didn't know what I was going to shoot.

PS: Minor bitchy point: most EX3s I've come across have lived a monogamous life when it comes to lenses. Sure it looks bigger, sure it has a lovely viewfinder, but it's a bit of a bugger to pack for Carry On. Only go EX3 for the need - the need, not a desire - to use extra lenses.
 
Yeah, I'm definitely sold on the FS100. I know the images are just what I want.

I'm just worried they might come out with some kind of 'FS100A' or something.

I just can't help but feel that it was kind of thrown together to answer the DSLR craze.

Bad ergonomics, cheap plastic, and no ND filters leave a lot to be desired, and I feel like it may be an easy fix.

However with the cheap S-log for the F3, I think they might be focusing on a higher price point camera at NAB.

Who knows... I think I'll just pull the trigger...
 
There will always be a new model later, but you should be shooting today.
The FS100 is fantastic bang for the buck.
We make a dedicated FS100 accessory system that smooths out the weird ergo - adding new stuff this month.
We are also putting an internal filter wheel into our Canon and Nikon mounts (yes they control iris)

The FS100, like the EX1 and EX3, will be a valid camera even after the next model hits the market. At $5k it is cheaper than a solid lens and accessory package.

my 2 cents ;-)
 
There is no space for ND with the E mount - so that won't come

Of course we can hope for an ND adapter for another lens mount sony A or nikon

S
 
rx8pilot said:
We are also putting an internal filter wheel into our Canon and Nikon mounts (yes they control iris)
Click to expand...

Now that's interesting. I saw your work with 'behind the lens' filters for the S65 and Alexa, but this would be a Canon/Nikon to E-mount with an ND ring AND iris control? There's one more element to add there... does it power IS? If so, from camera or via box?

I don't suppose it would be upgradable to a self-support style like your PL mount?

I have a feeling that there's lots of EOS lens owners who've been saving up their pennies for 'the' FS100 to EOS mount. We thought it would be Birger, we thought it would be Redrock Micro, we thought it would be Conurus, now Mike Tapa's MTF adaptor is shipping, and Metabones may have a second batch for sale soon... But an EOS adaptor with ND... That puts the cat amongst the pigeons. :)
 
I'd like to see the sensor in a smaller form factor ....maybe with a fixed zoom lens per something like the Sony R1. Or even a compact form factor like the nex 5.
 
Like a VG10 or an NX5? We're starting to see the 'lenscap' cameras in this format. :-D

I have a feeling that there may be an FS100-R - fix a few things, maybe re-examine the ND thing, add Cache record, strengthen the lens mount, but it wouldn't up things to recording 4:2:2 at 50 Mbits or anything too juicy that may make it step on the toes of the F3. I could understand the price of the F3 dropping to a point where the S-log option comes in at the current price so it can offer a strong position opposite the Canon, but the FS100 is delivering a lot of value as it stands.

The FS100 has had a difficult start, but it looks like it's going to be another 'EX1 story' (which suffered a sticky start, questionable build quality, labelled a Lemon for a while, still has a couple of deal-breaking faults for some). That's my view - it will still be around for a few years yet, with only a minor revision plus a handful of firmware updates through its product cycle.

But don't take my word for it. I am frequently wrong.
 
morgan_moore said:
There is no space for ND with the E mount

S
Click to expand...
Is this statement strictly true from an engineering standpoint? I'm not asking rhetorically. I don't know the answer.

The E-mount flange focal distance is 18mm; the micro 4/3 flange focal distance is 19.25mm, and they do have designs that incorporate ND filters. At first glance I wouldn't be inclined to believe that that extra 1+mm would make it impossible to put a filter in. But, again, I don't know. It seems that there were c-mount video cameras at just under 18mm ffd that had built-in ND. Hmmm.

Can anyone here answer this definitively?
 
I guess not technically true - sorry to be inaccurate -although Sony did say it in the first reviews of the camera that there was no space

Im thinking you are unlikely to get onboard ND with future e-mount cameras - or not until dimming LCD technology or something is used I guess far in the future

S
 
the flange depth by itself is not the deciding factor. It is the combination of the flange depth and the max protrusion of the lens from the flange. ex. if the flange depth is 18mm and the lens protrusion is maximum of 10mm - you have 8mm to put a wheel. If the lenses are 16mm deep - getting close to impossible.

I do not have the E-mount specs, so I cannot say how deep lenses are allowed to be. I do know from first hand design and engineering experience - filter wheels are not very thick.
 
Morgan, have to disagree with you on one thing, the FS100 can in fact see in the dark :) It is one of THE BEST low light cameras available. It shocks me how clean the image is with gain. I shot with 9dB this last week and couldn't believe how clean the image was, blew me away (and the colorist).
 
morgan_moore said:
Sorry - Off Topic

Carlos - do you have an update of use in ND in your system ??

S
Click to expand...

As fast as possible of course ;-)

There is danger in dropping "release dates", especially on a product with this level of complexity. In general, we will release a date and price shortly after the first successful prototype is completed and we know what we have. I don't want to disappoint. We are already machining the parts - 10 feet away from where I am writing this. That is very good news.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Morgan, have to disagree with you on one thing, the FS100 can in fact see in the dark :) It is one of THE BEST low light cameras available. It shocks me how clean the image is with gain. I shot with 9dB this last week and couldn't believe how clean the image was, blew me away (and the colorist).
Click to expand...

Fair point - I agree its good in low light - I was trying to allude to the fact that it is simply a very adequate camera for 1080 delivery but of course big better faster darker lighter will come along - but the FS is a very good 1080 camera


S
 
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