What Would You Say?

Well, the key point here is "constructive criticism" and some people don't take that very well. Personally......I love contructive criticism and I love honesty because if a particular person has told me honestly what's wrong with a film of mine and didn't like it.....then when that same person tells me how much they do like a film....well that speaks volumes to me.
 
We all learned a very good lesson here, not to listen to Marleen's friend in reguards to film, and whom not to hire for documentaries. (Da Nephew) 8 Hrs WTH, thats insane!! Thats usually raw footage, then you edit that down.
 
yea from 8 hours he will probably end up with 25 min useable... or apparently not....
 
TimurCivan said:
...say it was "unorthadox"....
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Good answer!

Wait a minute... Isn't that what you said to me? ha ha, jk.

I think Timur definitely has the right approach -- saying it was different, unorthadox, certainly has its own unique point of view, etc. That should either tip her off that you thought it was crapola but are trying to be polite, and she in turn should kindly drop the subject, or else because she thinks it's awesome, she will take those nebulous comments the way she wants to take them, as in, you agree with her...

If she won't drop it, you can always tackle it from the business side -- eg, Well, it's certainly brave to make an 8-hour memoir film, but he may have a really hard time finding a market for a piece of that length...
 
MsManhattan said:
Good answer!

Wait a minute... Isn't that what you said to me? ha ha, jk.
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I claim no responsibilty........ " I do not recall "......... haha Jk,

Whatever i said that in response too was good. i think perhaps it was your blog on The Plaza.... i cant remeber now. ( which was good everyone who is from NY should read it)
 
just tell him you couldnt play the dvd in your dvd player for some reason...

stall stall stall...
 
I had to develop some strategic answers on this front in my theatre career.

I think if you clarify your objective in speaking to your friend then what to say to her will become self evident, even if its a bitter pill to swallow.

For ex, if you just want not to ruffle any feathers then no reason to tell her you hated it. If this guy is a pro, or has convinced those in his immediate circle that he is a pro, then no reason to burst their bubble. Lie your ass off.

If honesty is more important that avoiding conflict then jus tell her as tactfullu as possible, but be ready for conflict.


Anyway, here are some of the "stragic responses" I developed in my 10 year theatre career. My objective was to not be phoney while not ruffling feathers or burning professional bridges. I feel good about the lack of phoneyness in these as they are for after show comments. Over coffee comments is a different story, then I would avoid the coffe converstaion or be tactfully 100% honest. But here are the responses:

"wow there's a lot to be proud of up there" (subsititute "up there"
with "on that DVD")
Shooting an 8 houtr doc is something to be proud of, finishing it is something to be proud of.

"there was a lot (or some) really good work"
if you liked any off it

"I really liked the part where..."
Skip a general impression alltogether by directing the conversation to one thing that you actually liked or could stand. Again you can fudge on commenting on the quality by commenting on the achievement "I really admired how he did whatever he had to do to get the shot" (regardless of composition or exposure or any of that other stuff).

Finally
"Wow, thanks for sharing that with me"
Which works well in tandem with any of the above or as an opener.
"Wow, thanks for sharing that with me. I really liked the part where ..."

And if she asks did you learn a lot I think you can say
"yes, thanks for sharing that with me. what an achievement."
You did learn something ... what not to do ... and again, completing this is an achievement.


Side Note:
My philosphy on walking out on bad theatre, which can't be simply paused and rewound and returned was to ask these three questions
1) is it important? (politcally, socially, etc.)
2) am I learning something from it? (could be what not to do)
3) is it entertaining?

If the answer was "Yes" to at least one of those then I would try and stay.
If the answer was "No" to all three then I would leave unless the artist was a friend.
Life is too short otherwise.
 
MsManhattan said:
Good answer!

Wait a minute... Isn't that what you said to me? ha ha, jk.

I think Timur definitely has the right approach -- saying it was different, unorthadox, certainly has its own unique point of view, etc. That should either tip her off that you thought it was crapola but are trying to be polite, and she in turn should kindly drop the subject, or else because she thinks it's awesome, she will take those nebulous comments the way she wants to take them, as in, you agree with her...

If she won't drop it, you can always tackle it from the business side -- eg, Well, it's certainly brave to make an 8-hour memoir film, but he may have a really hard time finding a market for a piece of that length...
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I think this is basically a a variation on the "that was ... interesting" approach which most people see through. If you are lucky she will think that you are trying to be polite. But you run the risk of pissing her off even though you possibly avoided conflict.

"Well that Marlene ... Who the hell does she think she is ... sure she's a good still photog, but she's a novice filmmaker and she had the audiacity to call my little Timmy's work 'un-orthodoxed'. Clealrly she's just jealous. I'm not inviting her to the barbecue next week." :grin:
 
Lot's of excellent points Jack......thank you. And to everyone else......thank you. If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's to be careful with what you say.....if you can....take time to think things out before responding to any sensitive issue, especially one that involves the ego.
 
thanks.
"lots of excellent points Jack"
Good application of the the above. :grin: Not every point was necessearliy excellent :) he he

if anyone found themselves in the position of having to give a friends or a colleagues feedback on their work anywhere from twice week to monthy, once upon a time, anyone would come up with some fancy footwork. And these aren't DVXusers where almost everyone is learning, these are people like your friends son who are supposed to be professionals with buckets of talent and years of training -- so Egos are fragile -- especially in theatre where society does not validate the artist much with either money or attendance (not talking Broadway), so ones peers are pretty much all one has.
 
If she asked me what I thought and I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I would say
"I checked it out and there were some things that I would have probably done differently , but overall it was ok."
Now by ok I mean I didn't burn it in a bonfire and get drunk to drown the pain.

I'm not really a big fan of telling people something is good when it's not , but I don't crush people dreams either because otherwise they will quit and will never become better.

This reminds me of a quote:

Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty.
- Stephen King
 
SilverWolf said:
This reminds me of a quote:

Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty.
- Stephen King
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Actually, I had an experience recently where someone lied about my character to further their relationship with another. The lie came very close to costing me the loss of a very good client. I think I would consider that person who lied.....an enemy.

I've been very confused, because of that experience, as to why people will lie to hurt another and better themselves. Now if it's a stranger telling the lie then I can understand (not condone) but when it's someone you know and whom you've never hurt......then it's hard to understand. I put a lot of value in the importance of someone's income, and to try and do damage that for personal gain is a part of the human chain of survival that I just can't accept.
 
I'd say,

"I've got some good news and some bad news."

"Go ahead...hit me with the bad news," says she.

I'd respond, "Damn, your nephew has nil in the talent department. I hope he learned how to make Vodka in Russia...cause he has no future in the 'biz'...Hell I don't think I'd hire him to shoot my kid's fifth birthday party. I would gratefully give a kidney in exchange for that 25 minutes of my life back."

Then, flabbergasted, the friend would inquire, "Some friend you are! Jesus Christ! What's the good news?!"

...and I'd close with, "I just saved a ton o' money on car insurance by switching to Geico."
 
marlenedegrood said:
Actually, I had an experience recently where someone lied about my character to further their relationship with another. The lie came very close to costing me the loss of a very good client. I think I would consider that person who lied.....an enemy.

I've been very confused, because of that experience, as to why people will lie to hurt another and better themselves. Now if it's a stranger telling the lie then I can understand (not condone) but when it's someone you know and whom you've never hurt......then it's hard to understand. I put a lot of value in the importance of someone's income, and to try and do damage that for personal gain is a part of the human chain of survival that I just can't accept.
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While that may be true the fact that this thread exist is validation of the quote. If friends weren't faced with the problem of telling the truth versus hurting feelings we wouldn't be here in this thread. Now that's not to say that that all enemies tell the truth but they generally don't have some predisposition to sparing your feelings
 
CallaghanFilms said:
I'd say,

"I've got some good news and some bad news."

"Go ahead...hit me with the bad news," says she.

I'd respond, "Damn, your nephew has nil in the talent department. I hope he learned how to make Vodka in Russia...cause he has no future in the 'biz'...Hell I don't think I'd hire him to shoot my kid's fifth birthday party. I would gratefully give a kidney in exchange for that 25 minutes of my life back."

Then, flabbergasted, the friend would inquire, "Some friend you are! Jesus Christ! What's the good news?!"

...and I'd close with, "I just saved a ton o' money on car insurance by switching to Geico."
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thats cruel and unusual Callaghan... it's mean yet hilarious at the same time!
 
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