what will it take for you to move to 4k?

cowpunk52 said:
I know everyone likes to get their rocks off bashing Canon , but you all realize that the 1D C is not $15K, right? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855962-REG/Canon_EOS_1D_C_EOS_1D_C_4K_Cinema.html

Granted, you're only $2k off, but $2k is $2k. Also, you get a 1D X stills camera to with it. For some cross-over industry shooters, it's probably not a bad deal.
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I paid $8000 for an 11mp Canon 1Ds. It set off the FF Dslr. Had you told me then I could shoot 4k moving images for a body like that back then ?????? It's just a camera! One built off technology they've had for a long time. Should they not put it out? DOA? What a lame statement. Name another DSLR that can hit 4k motion? A FULL FRAME ONE AT THAT! Guess where that tech is gonna go? Guess what else it does. It shoots 24 frames a second at 4k. Use that for stills. Think if you're a sports shooter?
DOA? Maybe for you. But I can think of a hundred applications for it and 1,000's of shooters who think like me.
 
So here I am just a little over a year since I first started this thread... and funny I am on 4k now!

I will answer my question from way back then - what it took for me to move over to a 4k capable camera really was not having to outfit an F3 with outboard recorder deck for the sake of 10-bit, plus having the option of 4k in a compressed codec as well as RAW if I wanted it. (since I tend to do more film stuff).

Cost-wise the F55 is a bit of a rip off but really for what it offers I think it is decent. I knew if I just worked harder at gigs that I could make a good businses case similar to how I justified buying the F3 way back when.

Anyway, no regrets.
 
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dustylense said:
I paid $8000 for an 11mp Canon 1Ds. It set off the FF Dslr. Had you told me then I could shoot 4k moving images for a body like that back then ?????? It's just a camera! One built off technology they've had for a long time. Should they not put it out? DOA? What a lame statement. Name another DSLR that can hit 4k motion? A FULL FRAME ONE AT THAT! Guess where that tech is gonna go? Guess what else it does. It shoots 24 frames a second at 4k. Use that for stills. Think if you're a sports shooter?
DOA? Maybe for you. But I can think of a hundred applications for it and 1,000's of shooters who think like me.
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I seriously looked at the 1Ds when it came out, but when the resolution tests first came out they were somewhat disappointing. It's a 4k wrapper, but not quite 4k. It's like the old debate of whether 720p is really HD, but lots of good stuff has been shot in 720p.

Stealthwise the 1Ds is the bomb. You could walk into Disneyland or set up on the streets of LA and not get hassled. Plus reframing is still there. So it definately has many uses. It just left me a little squimish on whether the footage was any sort of future proof.
 
Speaking of DSLR's and not so much 4k, the 5D iii now shooting RAW and is pretty impressive. I mean I really wanted the F55 for its RAW capability, in reality I probably could have settled for the F5, but in further reality the 5D iii is how much less costly than the F5 or F55?

I can't wait to be reading and posting in these forums a year from now... will be interesting to see what we talk about.
 
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starcentral said:
Speaking of DSLR's and not so much 4k, the 5D iii now shooting RAW is pretty impressive. I mean I really wanted the F55 for its RAW capability, in reality I probably could have settled for the F5, but in further reality the 5D iii is how much less costly than the F5 or F55?

I can't wait to be reading and posting in these forums a year from now... will be interesting to see what we talk about.
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I agree the 5D3 is very impressive and I think better recording options are far more important than 4k. I'd much rather have a super clean 1080 than compromised 4K.
 
I'm with you guys. I'd rather have 2K 10 bit 422 or 444 INTERNAL recording than 4K any day. What professional cameras can do this under $10K? None - even the Scarlet fully rigged is about $15K.
I own a bmcc and the rolling shutter, and fixed pattern noise make me realize it's IQ is not up to snuff. I regret selling my FS100 for it! I can't use the 5D Mark III Raw hack on professional shoots. 4K is coming, but I wish progress wasn't always governed so much by Marketing. I wish I could afford an F5 right now!
 
I have a shoot in India in January and was thinking about hiring an F5 for a couple of weeks. Seems like a great portable camera to have, compared to my F3 with the samurai, tvlogic VF, vlock battery adaptor etc. But not hearing much about it at the moment which I find interesting. Sorry for going off topic! Very excited about India though. Sparky
 
I've been shooting with my D5200 and while it's not perfect, it's capable of much better video quality than I could have ever imagined 5 years ago. S35 sensor (roughly), good in low light, little moire and aliasing, nice color, a nice selection of affordable lenses and the ability to record 4:2:2 files from the HDMI. $699 for the body. I can wait for 4K.
 
For me to move to 4k I'd want an f5 with a 4k out and or xavc 4k internal. I really hope next year we see a 35 mm sensor 4k camera that records internal compressed 4k and outputs raw for under 20k ( that isn't a BMC box ).
 
Sparky874 said:
I have a shoot in India in January and was thinking about hiring an F5 for a couple of weeks. Seems like a great portable camera to have, compared to my F3 with the samurai, tvlogic VF, vlock battery adaptor etc. But not hearing much about it at the moment which I find interesting. Sorry for going off topic! Very excited about India though. Sparky
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Dump that stuff for an Odyssey and you are done. Put some stock F3 batteries (U60s) and some Sony batteries on the Ody. and yeah, its a little bigger but you are getting a high end monitor that you can actually see everything in and record however you want to with it. It makes the F3 a whole new and very hard to beat package for anything near that price.
 
I just heard through the grapevine that AMC will soon be requiring 4K mastering for all their original dramatic content later next year (i.e. Mad Men if it shoots another season next year). So the transitioning is happening, good or bad!
 
The move to mastering in 4K might still be a ways down the road for most of us, but now that the technology is here to shoot in 4K affordably with no extra effort whatsoever, you're a fool not to do it if you expect your material to hold it's value in the next few years. Other people may not agree, but I predict HD material is going to be just as worthless in a few years as SD is today. Mark my words.
 
Doug Jensen said:
The move to mastering in 4K might still be a ways down the road for most of us, but now that the technology is here to shoot in 4K affordably with no extra effort whatsoever, you're a fool not to do it if you expect your material to hold it's value in the next few years. Other people may not agree, but I predict HD material is going to be just as worthless in a few years as SD is today. Mark my words.
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That is 100% completely ridiculous. SD vs HD is obvious to most human eyes and SD is 4:3 usually. HD looks great on 4K monitors and upscales very well, and will even look better than some 4K cameras coming out I am sure. I'd put my F3 footage up against any cheaper 4K camera coming up. I bet many people even in here couldn't see the difference between 4k and good HD on a 4K monitor. And HD is the same aspect ratio!

Do I need to start listing all the movies that are being shot and were shot in 1080 or 2K? Will Avatar and the last Star Wars be worthless soon? (yeah both may have sucked but, speaking technically) What about Gravity or Benjamin Button? What about Black Swan on 16mm scanned to 2K? How about Hugo and Skyfall?

Seriously, do some study before commenting. I hope you can see how inaccurate that was to say.
 
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Wow, seems like I really ruffled some feathers with that one, but I stand by my prediction. Let's come back in a few years and see who's right. But whether I'm right or wrong, I'll be ready either way and it won't have cost me anything except a little bit of extra drive space.
 
I would wait and go 4k in two years or so and by then we all know if 4k is where it's headed. There's no need to rush things unless you must deliver higher than 1080 today.
 
Doug Jensen said:
The move to mastering in 4K might still be a ways down the road for most of us, but now that the technology is here to shoot in 4K affordably with no extra effort whatsoever, you're a fool not to do it if you expect your material to hold it's value in the next few years. Other people may not agree, but I predict HD material is going to be just as worthless in a few years as SD is today. Mark my words.
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I think that's a fair point, especially if you're shooting stock footage. But for the average gomer here shooting their zombie movies, I would argue probably not.
 
Lots of ignorance around the forums and people buying into hype, as with most camera forums that discuss this now. I guess my points above are not going to be considered and talked about because they illuminate the very uninformed and knee-jerk reactions some are having to the tech manufactures need to keep things selling. I can't stress how wrong all of this "HD is soon useless" talk is. You are embarrassing yourselves and making people like myself lose some respect for any further comments from you.

Either avoid trying to discuss things you don't remotely have insight into or tell me in plain English how Avatar and Drive plus 100 other films, and most TV shows being made now, will be useless in a few years. Also explain to me why most people can't tell 4K footage from HD footage on 4K TV's and how this fact will somehow reenforce your predictions. Btw, Fruitvale Station and Walking Dead are both 16mm, I guess those are two FILM productions that will be useless too?

There's probably little hope in discussing this here since people who spent $30K on first-gen 4K cameras will get angry at the thought that it was possibly done prematurely.
 
Shoots56,
I actually agree with you about this but I don't agree with your attitude. I've mentioned this before and so have a few other people. These forums thrive on respect and the best people leave when it disappears. I've seen it happen a number of times. Calling people ridiculous, ignorant and just defending their purchases only suggests lack of maturity.
 
So true, Lenilenapi. Some people have taken my prediction of the demise of HD as some kind of personal insult. Almost like I've called their mother a whore or something. I don't get that reaction at all. Chill out, it's just a prediction. They can do what they want. It makes no differnce to me. As for myself, my F55 has already paid for itself in the first 7 months since I've owned it and 4K is clearly gaining momentum faster than I ever would have expected and opening doors I did not expect. So my prediction is rooted in reality, but whether it applies to everyone or not, I can't say. Heck, there are people still shooting SD, and I gave than up in 2005. There are people still shooting on tape, and I gave that up in 2006. You can lead some people to water . . .
 
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