What We've Learned From The Noise Threads

John_Hudson said:
Here's the deal. You are making reference to 'badly lit' footage but not showing me anything. I'm asking if I can get an example of your concerns ? Like a grab or a link ?
Click to expand...
I think that these pictures started the massive uncertainty among people who are just about to buy the camera:
http://www33.tok2.com/home/hvx200/

I'm positive that we have to learn the negative sides of the camera to avoid them in our shootings to get just the positive great stuff.
 
Ranger said:
From what I have observed, the people that have questioned the camera’s performance either own an HVX or eventually desire to own one (I fit in the later category). I have seen no indication of camera bashing or trolling on any of the threads regarding the HVX. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite. The threads and the protagonists participating have been very respectful and courteous to one another. Sure, there have been instances where some have gone out of their way to “break” the footage, but likewise HVX supporters have taken extreme measures in defense of the camera.

This forum should be a marketplace for ideas to discuss the merits as well as the shortcomings of the camera whether it is the HVX, DVX, JVC, Canon or whatever. People should feel comfortable to share differences of opinion without fear of posts being closed, folks being banned or labeled a troll, or worse yet, suggested that their participation is no longer desired or wanted here. That's hardly a path that this forum should head down.
Click to expand...

Well said Ranger, I see a LOT of positive talk and positive posts here, and people are friendly and helpfull. Also good moderating in a professional field is a different job, not all are capable of doing that. To lead a discussion and give room for two sides of the story without making yourself inportant. You know, in a professional field you can harm more then you think, people do talk with each other.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
I agree with most of what you say Ranger. I just wish everyone could be respectful when they post. While repeated negative posts may not affect the reputation of the camera, they do have an effect on the reputation of this community. If people want to devote fifty pages to every little thing wrong with the HVX they are free to create their own forum to do that. Yes the HVX is inherently noisy, that point has been brought up in just about every thread. It has users and potential buyers scared to try the camera for themselves. I would rather people focus on how to work around the limitations, how to minimize noise, methods to cut down on it in post, and how to get the best from this great tool.
Click to expand...
My whole day is filled with meetings, so I'll be brief.

Isaac, I too also agree ... to a point. Yes, negative posts may affect this community, but I feel it could be in a good way.

Should the community be scared of this camera (or any camera)? You bet! A little healthy criticism and cautious skepticism can go a long way towards making an informed and well thought out decision. I don't know how many folks on here have disposable incomes to squander, but before I part with my hard earned cash, I want to be sure that I am making the right decision (as I determine that decision to be - based on needs, use, etc.), not marketing spin.

Isaac, one other point. Let those bloated posts continue. Eventually, one of two things will happen. First, the posts will send the message to (insert company here) that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. It also has the benefit of informing customers of the issue (if there is one) and for them to think it through before committing funds. Second, if the post(s) lacks merit, it will eventually collapse upon the weight of its own bloat. As I said earlier, let the chips fall where they may. I am a big believer in the principle of Ockham's Razor - the simplest answer is often the correct one.
 
John_Hudson said:
Here's the deal. You are making reference to 'badly lit' footage but not showing me anything. I'm asking if I can get an example of your concerns ? Like a grab or a link ?
Click to expand...

And another noise test: http://www.morrisbrothersfilms.net/


and a grab image:
109520034_b52de90068_o.jpg
 
Last edited:
thefilmaddict said:
Please don't let this site become a Panasonic ad campaign. I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. What can we learn from all positive posts? Don't delete negative posts unless they are obscene.

Other sites make fun of dvxuser for blindly following Panasonic. Don't let them be right! In a world where corporate giants control everything, let this site be for the people and not for the machine.
Click to expand...

I agree with this and what RANGER said. I think that certain members relationships with Panasonic and the benifits they recieve from said relationships may make it hard for them to openly discuss their feelings. I would also assume that a negative tone toward Panny on these boards might also cause some friction with their relationship.

That being said. They are very open about these relationships so readers can make their own decisions about the merits of said members evangelism of Panny products.

I personally don't understand brand loyalty. I am brand agnostic. I don't give two shakes of a lambs tale over Chevy vs. Ford. I have never understood the cruel use of one of the worlds greatest cartoons (Calvin and Hobbs) micturating on eithers logo. All brands are evil. All big corporations exploit people. All cameras have weaknesses. Everything is a compromise. Get over it.

What we are discussing or should be discussing is which compromises are we willing to accept vs. the gains offered. Not every tool will do everything. Some artist may prefer oil vs. acrylic. Water color vs. Pastels. Some paint of a canvass other paint on subway walls.

At the end of the day in this world of ambiguous standards there is really no "one" solution camera that will fit every need. The 35mm Adapter thread by the 24 guys shows that even when you can have the best money can buy you still are not happy. 35mm film is great but does have workflow an money issues. So they tried to find alternatives.

If you are in video production you are going to need more than "one" camera if you plan to be able to do everthing. This is not a unique situation either. Post houses, Digital Effects Houses, Sound studios all have the same issues with software and equipment.

So let's not bash any camera just "because". They all should have a place. It would serve us all well to know what each does well and how to use each.

There is nothing wrong with posting badly lit pictures that expose the worst case scenerio with the HVX. For some the pictures may be helpful in determining the cameras limitations. As each person has his or her own needs all instances of the camera footage should be welcome.

I think everyone here is smart enough to read this board and make smart decisions based on the information presented. To believe otherwise is an insult to everyone here.

I seriously doubt anyone here is dumb enough to blindly follow a bunch of subjective posts ( mine included) in making any buying decisions. At best it may cause some to hold off on their purchase until they get a chance to actually test the camera for themselves. The pre-delivery hype that surrounded the HVX and the resulting shortage may have seduced a lot of people into buying sight unseen. Maybe that was not such a good thing. No harm in people waiting unless you are working for Panasonic why would you care?

Everyone still on the fence should rent or borrow each of the cameras and do some testing. More than the cost you really need to be sure you are getting the right tool for what you do. Put a piece of black tape over the logos if that helps. Noise, spit-screens, Macro-Blocking, Resolution...
DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE BELIEVE YOUR EYES.

P.S.
Also I think "articles" or "Star F**king" posts about who bought the camera are pointless, absurd and insulting. Admin wanna remove posts? Remove those. We are professionals not Opra's book club.
 
Last edited:
Well, my brain hurts.....maybe some peoples cameras have issues..maybe some situations are extreme conditions. The debate is good..to a point. All I know is I went back and watched some HVX slow mo footage of high speed traffic and some construction footage I shot a few weeks back.....and even if there is some noise in the blacks.....I'm loving the camera.

I'm also looking at the JVC too. They may BOTH have their place on my shoots.
Any ways, as I and MANY have said....for what we can get with small $$$$....from various tools...it's a great time to be a filmmaker.
 
Have some respect!

Have some respect!

Holditnowfilms,

I don't believe in pissing in someone else's pond, lol.

Don't insult the admins of the forum that you view, post and learn from daily.

Guys, it's just a camera--Not the end of the world. I have had my HVX since early January and like many here have made the money that purchased it back with the first couple of gigs.

Use it or don't use but stop posting like a jerk continually and get over yourself.
 
holditnowfilms said:
I personally don't understand brand loyalty. I am brand agnostic. I don't give two shakes of a lambs tale over Chevy vs. Ford. I have never understood the cruel use of one of the worlds greatest cartoons (Calvin and Hobbs) micturating on eithers logo. All brands are evil. All big corporations exploit people. All cameras have weaknesses. Everything is a compromise. Get over it.

... ... ...

Also I think "articles" or "Star F**king" posts about who bought the camera are pointless...
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. All these cameras rock. Get the one you like and have fun.
 
pretopost said:
Holditnowfilms,

I don't believe in pissing in someone else's pond, lol.

Don't insult the admins of the forum that you view, post and learn from daily.

Guys, it's just a camera--Not the end of the world. I have had my HVX since early January and like many here have made the money that purchased it back with the first couple of gigs.

Use it or don't use but stop posting like a jerk continually and get over yourself.
Click to expand...

I have not insulted anyone. I just stated an observation everyone already knew. The fact that admins of this forum are so honest about any panny relationship is a good thing and shows they are not intentionally trying to decieve anyone. That is why I read, post and learn from this site.

Your insult to me however pretty much proves my point and has made my post all the more all the more poignant and for that I thank you.

I will try to get over my self but I'm so damn sexy.:love4:
 
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, a site which was created for users of a particular camera may have members -- and, God forbid, moderators -- who may be enthusiasts of that camera? Who may be quite knowledgeable on it?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, they might have been enthusiastic about that camera no matter whose nameplate was on the side of it?

When you see us start saying you should buy Panasonic hair dryers, toasters, shower radios, etc., then you may have something.

Until then, consider carefully whom you slag. Words matter. And hurtful words are a big deal.
 
Just to make a point.. of the 3459 posts on noise in the last month.. how many posts were of actual value?
 
Jarred Land said:
Just to make a point.. of the 3459 posts on noise in the last month.. how many posts were of actual value?
Click to expand...


Not many.

I was shocked when I first saw the noise.
I thought something was dreadfully wrong.
Now that I see good footage, shots in real world use, and realize I need some fill light, things are good.

I can't wait to shoot something structured.

I was actually more worried about the realities of a real time view of said footage, than the noise.
Untill I bought Canopus broadcast, I felt like mike and myself were in a sinking boat.

I am not sure the problem I have with mac. I most likely will spend as much money on the pc side. I guess just knowing I can't find the best deal on gear.
I would have to do the take it or leave it option on a mac.

When faced with that choice, I always leave it.
 
holditnowfilms said:
P.S.
Also I think "articles" or "Star F**king" posts about who bought the camera are pointless, absurd and insulting. Admin wanna remove posts? Remove those. We are professionals not Opra's book club.
Click to expand...
Y'know what? That ain't gonna happen.

This community's been around a long, long time. And before it was a bitchfest, it was a community. And people liked talking about what projects they were working on, and they liked seeing what other people were working on. And they liked pointing out where their chosen tool was being used. When InDigEnt switched from PD150's to DVX's, it was a source of pride for a lot of members here. When "November" won best cinematography at Sundance, it got talked a lot about. When people hear about a new project being shot on the DVX or the HVX, they talk about it.

Heck, when people spot a DVX on an episode of BattleStar Galactica they come in here and talk about it.

And we're glad they do. They're having fun. They're sharing something. They're being a community. And they're welcome to.

So no, we aren't gonna take that post down. Hell no. People like it. They get excited by it. They look forward to those projects to see what "their baby can do."

If you're truly, honestly "insulted" by it, you might have to re-evaluate whether this is the community for you. This is a big community, and it caters to all levels: those who are working professionals and high-paid multi-varicam owners like Harlan, and those whose sole dream is to work at Pizza Hut long enough that they can afford to someday buy a used DVX100.

This is a community.

We LIKE being a community.

We're going to continue being a community. And those who like the community are welcome to come here and participate and discuss. And those who don't like it would probably find themselves happier if they went elsewhere.

Not singling anyone out, mind you. But there's been so much whining and complaining recently, I think we're all tired of it.
 
And yes.. Barry has my full support.

If you guys that own HD100's want a sticky in the Forums with who is using the HD100's, or Hl1's then just create it.

holdit.. chill out dude.
 
Jarred Land said:
And yes.. Barry has my full support.

If you guys that own HD100's want a sticky in the Forums with who is using the HD100's, or Hl1's then just create it.

holdit.. chill out dude.
Click to expand...

I'm chill. I was just trying to say we don't need to get too worried about negative HVX posts hurting the HVX. I think we are all smarter than that. I saw a trend toward people getting defensive about the cam and or posts I wasn't trying to start a riot I was trying to avoid one.

I was also trying to point out that the FANBOY issue was a non-issue not the opposite. I guess you guys took it as a slight when it was not meant to be.

The fact I think worrying about who FAMOUS owns the camera is silly is just my opinion. For me I don't need to know Abe Vigoda uses my camera to make me feel like I can shoot a great film with it. I will let me skilz be the deciding factor in how good/bad my films can be. I own the camera already so I'm in baby you don't gotta sell me. I was just sayin' if deleting stuff was an option that got my vote. Again sorry I rattled the cage.

Here I thought my post was really positive and brought up some valid points toward all cameras and the intelligence of all users. Shame on me.

Hey I think a good dose of chill could do us all some good.
 
Barry_Green said:
Y'know what? That ain't gonna happen.

This community's been around a long, long time. And before it was a bitchfest, it was a community. And people liked talking about what projects they were working on, and they liked seeing what other people were working on. And they liked pointing out where their chosen tool was being used. When InDigEnt switched from PD150's to DVX's, it was a source of pride for a lot of members here. When "November" won best cinematography at Sundance, it got talked a lot about. When people hear about a new project being shot on the DVX or the HVX, they talk about it.

Heck, when people spot a DVX on an episode of BattleStar Galactica they come in here and talk about it.

And we're glad they do. They're having fun. They're sharing something. They're being a community. And they're welcome to.

So no, we aren't gonna take that post down. Hell no. People like it. They get excited by it. They look forward to those projects to see what "their baby can do."

If you're truly, honestly "insulted" by it, you might have to re-evaluate whether this is the community for you. This is a big community, and it caters to all levels: those who are working professionals and high-paid multi-varicam owners like Harlan, and those whose sole dream is to work at Pizza Hut long enough that they can afford to someday buy a used DVX100.

This is a community.

We LIKE being a community.

We're going to continue being a community. And those who like the community are welcome to come here and participate and discuss. And those who don't like it would probably find themselves happier if they went elsewhere.

Not singling anyone out, mind you. But there's been so much whining and complaining recently, I think we're all tired of it.
Click to expand...

Those were the days.

-

Good times. Well said BG
 
By the way, I saw the new U2 (must be old now) video. There were lots of run and gun pictures taken from dv cameras. And I believe a lot of the footage was captured with the DVX! The video is nice- a bit of a repetition from their old rooftop show video- but still cool!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top