What We've Learned From The Noise Threads

John_Hudson said:
Where ? I've seen practically every bit of HVX footage made available to us (more or less) and haven't seen these issues.

I did see the WOLF grabs that were 'tweaked to hell and back'; does that count ?
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Well I think I have seen and read it all too, I have tons of material here, but no, the WOLF scene just show me the beauty of the HVX. That does not count.

You see it however in the bad lit shots of the Graveyard And Beach Footage. I posted a grab from the club promo footage you can see it there too.
 
The good stuff does count.

I was suggesting to show the worst blocky, noisy stuff people can get with the HVX. If they explain what they did to get the blockyness than others could learn something of it. Even the 24fps super35 has its limitation. So to learn what the limitation of your camcorder is can help you to make the good stuff which will count.
 
John_Hudson said:
So the good stuff doesn't count ? So we're intentionally trying to find the worst stuff ?
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I do not think I understand your opinion. Nobody -and me either- said that the good stuff does not count. Or that "we" are doing things, who is we? There are people with good positive and with less than that experiences. What is the problem with that? You want everybody to agreed on the same? Its not going to happen, I do not even see the need to start the discussion all over again.
 
The problem is that people are jumping to conclusions when they don't have the camera in front of them to test the assumptions and make their own judgments. On top of that people don't have proper monitoring tools to judge the footage they've downloaded. People end up just repeating the assumptions they've read as if they're fact. It's how FUD is created. There is a big difference between what you read and what you see. And it doesn't help to pick apart footage shot in unlit surroundings and to blame the camera.

It's just a little odd that people are asking for worst case shooting and trying to wring the worst footage out of this tool instead of looking for knowledge to get the best out of it.
 
I understand that. But you can't blame people who want to buy an expensive camera to " figure out " how it performs before they buy. And user experiences are a good tool, so is the web. And with those high bandwidth you actually can download a lot of material to see it your self. To see the good and to see the bad, to hear about the work arounds or the investments you need to make to see it properly. So you can buy it with a creditcard, it is always better to test it out for you buy, but it is not always possible.

Nice website Isaac, is that you; Alan Brody or family?
 
The web can be a good resource for making a buying decision, but you have to realize that every opinion you get here is biased. People choose the tools that best fit their needs and shooting styles.

Unfortunately, people also have a tendency to justify their tools by tearing apart the tools that don't fit their needs. By far the best way to figure out what camera fits your needs is renting and testing out each camera you're interested in.

PM me for more information on my personal work, I don't want to take this discussion offtopic.
 
Like I said before: people who use and bought this HVX cam experienced unhappy things and they talked about it. Normally people don't bash something they own, and paid for. So if they they do, you better listen.

I absolutely don't like a 'lets talk it all good behavior', if there are points wrong: say it. There must be room for criticisms as long their is room for positivism.
 
xray said:
Like I said before: people who use and bought this HVX cam experienced unhappy things and they talked about it. Normally people don't bash something they own, and paid for. So if they they do, you better listen.
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Actually I think it's human nature for people to look for faults. I don't think people are ever satisfied with their tools. Just watch, if Red is released later this year or whenever it comes out I'm sure it'll be groundbreaking. I'm also fairly certain that a few people will be unsatisfied that it doesn't have XYZ and they'll be the most vocal about it lacking those features.

I just think the limitations of 1/3 ccd HD cameras are already well known. There are tradeoffs to coming in at this pricepoint. It's up to you to work around those limitations or find a bigger budget to get something better. We're not advocating "let's talk about all the good things here," but we're not gonna tolerate fifty pages of focusing on the negative things. That just ends up scaring people away who might benefit from the HVX's featureset.
 
Take it easy xray.

I do not think I understand your opinion. Nobody -and me either- said that the good stuff does not count.
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In fact you said this:

Well I think I have seen and read it all too, I have tons of material here, but no, the WOLF scene just show me the beauty of the HVX. That does not count.
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Nevertheless, I cannot agree at all with your take xray (or you Serge). I can take my DVX out and do really bad things with it and we can all sit back and say 'Well, that looks like shite. What did you do ?'

and I can say

'I have no clue how to operate this thing so I'd suggest learning how to and maybe even taking a photography basics class.'

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It may or may not be human nature to find the faults; but at dvxuser we aim to carry a more positive vibe. Let's try and find the best work and bring out the best quality; not the worst. Can we be any more negative ?

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It'd be one thing to see some balance on the two but a few of you are concentrating soley on the negatives and some even asking for the worst stuff out there. Bizarre.

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Let me ask you; are you planning to purchase the HVX xray ?
 
I said: the WOLF scene just show me the beauty of the HVX. That does not count. (Does not count in a "negative way". Compris? There is nothing un-easy on that I think.) I did not spend time here if I was not looking if the HVX could work for my company (in DVCpro50 SD, we don't need HD) .

Are you planning to buy the HVX John?
 
I know there is concern about the resolution and “noise” (for lack of a better term) issue getting out of control or being potentially harmful in portraying the camera's true characteristics, but my feeling on this is that the merits (or lack thereof) of the HVX will succeed or fail based on its performance. Repeated negative posts will go nowhere if the complaints lack credibility. The success of the DVX is a prime example of this.

From what I have observed, the people that have questioned the camera’s performance either own an HVX or eventually desire to own one (I fit in the later category). I have seen no indication of camera bashing or trolling on any of the threads regarding the HVX. In fact, I have seen quite the opposite. The threads and the protagonists participating have been very respectful and courteous to one another. Sure, there have been instances where some have gone out of their way to “break” the footage, but likewise HVX supporters have taken extreme measures in defense of the camera.

This forum should be a marketplace for ideas to discuss the merits as well as the shortcomings of the camera whether it is the HVX, DVX, JVC, Canon or whatever. People should feel comfortable to share differences of opinion without fear of posts being closed, folks being banned or labeled a troll, or worse yet, suggested that their participation is no longer desired or wanted here. That's hardly a path that this forum should head down.

I sent a PM to Rush the other day with intent of getting on the HVX order list. I’m a Mac guy and absolutely love the feature set and workflow that the HVX offers. I will admit that I love the resolution and color of the JVC, but its workflow (and incompatibility with FCP) is not the direction I want to go in. I think the P2/tapeless workflow is the way of the future and eventually will kill tape like the digital still camera has done to traditional film. However, with all that being said, I still desire objectivity and fairness in what’s being discussed here and hopes that this website doesn’t become more than just an extension of the Panasonic marketing machine.

As long as the posts (and replies) remain respectful, then let the chips fall where they may. In the long run, it’s to ALL of our advantage.

<end of rant>
 
Thank you Ranger; a nice post and I agree with you.

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xray

You said you never said it; I said you did and now were going in a circle. I don't even care one way or the other (the Irony).

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I'm not buying anytime soon but will be using one later in 2006 for a project(s). I'll stick to renting until my budget / workload warrants a total upgrade. (... buying a home and relocating in a few months will be sucking all available finances out the door.)

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Maybe it is just me, but I am not certain why there appears to be a manic vibe going on here ? Am I missing something ?

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Here's the deal. You are making reference to 'badly lit' footage but not showing me anything. I'm asking if I can get an example of your concerns ? Like a grab or a link ?
 
Ranger said:
This forum should be a marketplace for ideas to discuss the merits as well as the shortcomings of the camera whether it is the HVX, DVX, JVC, Canon or whatever. People should feel comfortable to share differences of opinion without fear of posts being closed, folks being banned or labeled a troll, or worse yet, suggested that their participation is no longer desired or wanted here. That's hardly a path that this forum should head down.
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Well said, Ranger.

The fanboy mentality here is too much for me. As an HVX owner who HAS issues with the HVX, I have been greatly concerned about my posts being deleted, threads being closed and getting accused of not knowing how to perform my job. This reminds me of how 2-Pop was just before it became a ghost town.

If any moderator could point me in the right direction of deleting my account, it'd be appreciated. Thanks.

Good luck everyone.

-CJ Roy
www.arkhamfilms.com
 
Hello Ranger,

one of the best posts i read in the last weeks here, thank you for that.
I also dont like to hear people bashing the hvx, but if there are serious concerns and issues it should be able to discuss this here without any posts being deleted or people being accused of whatever!

Lets keep us being crative(in any meaning..)i have seen so much power and knowledge on this forum.lets use this power, also if it means to criticise some of the hvx-abilities..!
 
Please don't let this site become a Panasonic ad campaign. I want to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. What can we learn from all positive posts? Don't delete negative posts unless they are obscene.

Other sites make fun of dvxuser for blindly following Panasonic. Don't let them be right! In a world where corporate giants control everything, let this site be for the people and not for the machine.
 
ArkhamFilms said:
Well said, Ranger.

The fanboy mentality here is too much for me. As an HVX owner who HAS issues with the HVX, I have been greatly concerned about my posts being deleted, threads being closed and getting accused of not knowing how to perform my job. This reminds me of how 2-Pop was just before it became a ghost town.

If any moderator could point me in the right direction of deleting my account, it'd be appreciated. Thanks.

Good luck everyone.

-CJ Roy
www.arkhamfilms.com
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I can do that for you. JUst send me a PM and I'll be happy to assist you.

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As far as a Fan Mentality; who has that ?

The only thing we frown on is the negative bashing (of any camera in fact). It is the same thing Chris Hurd frowns upon over at dvinfo.net

We try and keep threads and posts fact worthy and we'll call you out on it if they are not.

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I agree with most of what you say Ranger. I just wish everyone could be respectful when they post. While repeated negative posts may not affect the reputation of the camera, they do have an effect on the reputation of this community. If people want to devote fifty pages to every little thing wrong with the HVX they are free to create their own forum to do that. Yes the HVX is inherently noisy, that point has been brought up in just about every thread. It has users and potential buyers scared to try the camera for themselves. I would rather people focus on how to work around the limitations, how to minimize noise, methods to cut down on it in post, and how to get the best from this great tool.

CJ, I'm sorry you feel that the community is made up of fanboys. Every community has its share of "fanboys," users that are commited to their camera. If you think that only happens here you're mistaken. We also have HD100 and XLH1 fanboys here as well, users who graciously give their time and expertise to show what all these tools are capable of. I hope you stick around.
 
ArkhamFilms said:
Well said, Ranger.

The fanboy mentality here is too much for me. As an HVX owner who HAS issues with the HVX, I have been greatly concerned about my posts being deleted, threads being closed and getting accused of not knowing how to perform my job. This reminds me of how 2-Pop was just before it became a ghost town.

If any moderator could point me in the right direction of deleting my account, it'd be appreciated. Thanks.

Good luck everyone.

-CJ Roy
www.arkhamfilms.com
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Actually John Hudson is one of the few without a fanboy mentality.

But he will "call you on it" when he wants
 
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