What went wrong on your first serious shoot?
- Thread starter iamWZA
- Start date
Belief Pictures
Active member
Well on our first shoot it went well for the most part. Just mostly work ethic issues with the cast and crew. Lots of back stabbing and gossips. After I left the room people would talk about me behind my back saying what a 'push over' I was... tried to confront the situations best I can. It didn't work though because they were busy protecting themselves.
jghenderson
Well-known member
Well i'm not very experienced, as I am only right now working on my first "big" project, which is a short film, shooting next week. But I can say the biggest issue i've had so far is definitely motivation for the crew. When you aren't paying people buckets of money, it can be difficult to convince them to spend the amount of time necessary for a project to be great. I'm trying to be as passionate and energetic as possible, hoping that will trickle down to the rest of the crew, but sometimes it feels like a losing battle.
Egg Born Son
Veteran
Take plenty of vitamin C and get your flu shots! I've been working on my first serious shoot for Warfest. I had everything planned out and everything was going well, i had an ambitious script, location permissions, actors, costumes. I've been sick in bed now for three weeks and counting. Just like on 'House' the quacks have misdiagnosed me a number of times (currently calling it pneumonia) and production has been pushed back. The last two weekends the weather was perfect (it's hard not to dwell on what could have been) but it is likely to rain for the next 2-3 months straight. On a side note we had a tornado in the metro area today. WTF? This is Perth, we don't have tornados. So now my perfect location is out, it looks like one of my actors is going to be unavailable for the new dates and having already bought costumes I have to find a replacement that will fit his unusual dimensions! It seems it only takes one element to throw the whole thing out. Trying to rewrite to my new circumstances because I'm still determined to submit something but indoors/outdoors was a core thematic component and the rewrite/reimagining isn't going so well.
bressonftw
New member
One thing I noticed is communication. I have done a few shorts (some with friends, some more ambitious) and helped other friends out who made a film. Sometimes when someone of the crew asks you what we're going to do, and you explain it, possibly very expansive explanation. The person will probably nod, and you will think you have explained it, but people stil forget/get lost in the big talk, so I found it rather efficient on later shoots to summarize the big explanation, in a few short, to-the-point points (for instance: ok first A enters, then Camera pans, B meets A) etc. Ofcourse, I have not yet worked with the a clapperperson/screamy person who organizes stuff on a set. If you don't have such a crewmember, you might find this usefull.
One of the biggest issues I ran across on my first major shoot, and actually still run across from time to time, is egos.
For the most part, when you are shooting a low/no budget indie, most of the crew that you recruit are fellow filmmakers.
Nine times out of ten during your first serious shoot, your 1st AD isnt a career AD. The same thing goes for your AC's (if you have any), and so on and so forth. Most of the time, at least in my case, my crew was primarily composed of fellow indie writer/directors who all lend a helping hand to each others shoots. That being said...you know the old adage "Too many cooks in the kitchen"...well, thats exactly what happens.
On my first major shoot, my DP was a director/cinematographer, my 1st AD was an aspiring director, my gaffer was an aspiring DP, my location sound op was actually a post audio mixer, my line producer was a writer/director, my production designer was a writer/director/cinematographer, hell... even my script supervisor/continuity/clapper was an independent filmmaker...actually, so was my one and only PA. So, needless to say, there were about a half dozen "aspiring directors" on set. So you can imagine the headaches that I had to deal with as the ACTUAL writer/director for that project.
Everyone had a suggestion for a shot or for framing, between takes I had 3 or 4 people "directing" my actors, I would call for a lens change only to find that the "DP" had decided on his own choice of glass. I mean, everyone felt like their ideas were the best.
Now, dont get me wrong...I am the most collaborative person you will ever meet when Im working with talented people. I value everyones opinions, and always believe that "whatever is best for the film" is the decision to be made. But when 12 people all think that their decision is whats best, thats when the s@!t hits the fan!
Really, I always envision a film set like the military, with a chain of command. Each department has one person that they ultimately answer to, and that person answers directly to the director. When the director makes a final decision, than final that decision should be. Again, Im all for collaboration, creative input, and the sharing of ideas. Besides, I know that a true DP is extensively more knowledgeable than I when it comes to the camera package and the glass... the same thing goes with every other department, and I will always trust their judgement on the things that they know best... but a ship isnt going to go anywhere without a captain...lol
I thought it would be great to have so many die hard filmmakers on set for my production, however, it turned into a migraine that no amount of Excedrin would cure!
That was definitely my most troublesome issue with my first serious shoot, and sadly, I still run into that problem from time to time.
For the most part, when you are shooting a low/no budget indie, most of the crew that you recruit are fellow filmmakers.
Nine times out of ten during your first serious shoot, your 1st AD isnt a career AD. The same thing goes for your AC's (if you have any), and so on and so forth. Most of the time, at least in my case, my crew was primarily composed of fellow indie writer/directors who all lend a helping hand to each others shoots. That being said...you know the old adage "Too many cooks in the kitchen"...well, thats exactly what happens.
On my first major shoot, my DP was a director/cinematographer, my 1st AD was an aspiring director, my gaffer was an aspiring DP, my location sound op was actually a post audio mixer, my line producer was a writer/director, my production designer was a writer/director/cinematographer, hell... even my script supervisor/continuity/clapper was an independent filmmaker...actually, so was my one and only PA. So, needless to say, there were about a half dozen "aspiring directors" on set. So you can imagine the headaches that I had to deal with as the ACTUAL writer/director for that project.
Everyone had a suggestion for a shot or for framing, between takes I had 3 or 4 people "directing" my actors, I would call for a lens change only to find that the "DP" had decided on his own choice of glass. I mean, everyone felt like their ideas were the best.
Now, dont get me wrong...I am the most collaborative person you will ever meet when Im working with talented people. I value everyones opinions, and always believe that "whatever is best for the film" is the decision to be made. But when 12 people all think that their decision is whats best, thats when the s@!t hits the fan!
Really, I always envision a film set like the military, with a chain of command. Each department has one person that they ultimately answer to, and that person answers directly to the director. When the director makes a final decision, than final that decision should be. Again, Im all for collaboration, creative input, and the sharing of ideas. Besides, I know that a true DP is extensively more knowledgeable than I when it comes to the camera package and the glass... the same thing goes with every other department, and I will always trust their judgement on the things that they know best... but a ship isnt going to go anywhere without a captain...lol
I thought it would be great to have so many die hard filmmakers on set for my production, however, it turned into a migraine that no amount of Excedrin would cure!
That was definitely my most troublesome issue with my first serious shoot, and sadly, I still run into that problem from time to time.
I've seen this before, in fact, I may be guilty of it too. Definitely something to let everyone know about if you're working with fellow filmmakers as this kind of thing can happen without any conscious effort.
On my last serious project (as serious as I could go) I had an actor who decided to play diva. He held the production up by three months because he was rehearsing for a "stage play". I couldn't replace him because we already shot important scenes with him that couldn't be re-shot. Well, when I spoke to my lead I found out he was also rehearsing for the same stage play and he actually had a higher role - but yet he could make all the shoot dates, even on short notice. Long story short, after lots of emails and phone calls I finally convinced the actor to finish up his last few scenes. It turned out that he blatantly lied to us and didn't actually want to be apart of the film, probably because he thought "film" meant some Hollywood glamour, but then he realized it didn't. Three months down the drain.
sonofaresiii
Well-known member
Ugh, I HATE other people directing my actors. DP: "It needs to be way bigger, like you're really just pissed off and can't believe this happened." Me: "...No. Don't do that." No one wins in that situation. Your actor is confused, your DP is resentful, and it looks like you're losing control of the set.
I'm not an infallible director by any means, and I'll constantly be asking for second opinons... "What did you think of that?" etc... but if I don't ask, don't offer.
If nothing else, it's helped me be a much better cinematographer, now that I can understand that when I'm on set to DP, I'm there to make the OTHER guy's movie, period. Most valuable skill in a crew member.
iamWZA
Active member
The clue's in the name, surely? You take directions from the director. The film is the vision of the director and as such nobody should be making decisions without consulting them. How would you establish this before shooting without it sounding too authoritative and hierarchical? Sounds like a tricky job keeping a large crew on their best behaviour! Interesting points - thanks for the contributions.
colebennett
Active member
My first major project was a small town web commercial I wrote, and DP'd. Because it was my first serious project, and I've had little experience with video (I'm a photographer), I made the mistake of thinking I'd also direct, and my actors would read my mind. I did try and explain each shot to them - but my head was too wrapped up in the composition and lighting, that my communication got fuddled. My wife, who's a student in psychology, stepped in and started Directing. It was pretty cool to see how naturally she picked up the role. She knew where I wanted to go with the story, and she had a good big picture view of the whole thing, and knew where we needed to step it up.
That was one big thing I learned I needed to improve on next time - plan to have that role filled (probably by her again!)
Another thing was the time spent shooting. I crammed the whole shoot into one day. And we of course went over time. There was an imperative point in the video, where the lead delivers a line. The line was funny, and it got everyone in the room laughing. Including myself. Because I was tired, and she delivered the line so well, I didn't notice she was laughing at the line herself, RIGHT after delivery. We ended up using the shot anyway, and it worked out okay. But I was originally going for a straight faced delivery.
But that leads to the third thing I learned.
Too many people on set.
I had friends who have no experience in film help out. And a couple of them did well - and were a big help. But next time I'm planning to reduce down to only a select few. More people = more distractions for everyone. A select few go-getters who have experience even taking direction in construction would be a great start (They know how to not get killed, move equipment, wrap cables etc).
Here's the video
That was one big thing I learned I needed to improve on next time - plan to have that role filled (probably by her again!)
Another thing was the time spent shooting. I crammed the whole shoot into one day. And we of course went over time. There was an imperative point in the video, where the lead delivers a line. The line was funny, and it got everyone in the room laughing. Including myself. Because I was tired, and she delivered the line so well, I didn't notice she was laughing at the line herself, RIGHT after delivery. We ended up using the shot anyway, and it worked out okay. But I was originally going for a straight faced delivery.
But that leads to the third thing I learned.
Too many people on set.
I had friends who have no experience in film help out. And a couple of them did well - and were a big help. But next time I'm planning to reduce down to only a select few. More people = more distractions for everyone. A select few go-getters who have experience even taking direction in construction would be a great start (They know how to not get killed, move equipment, wrap cables etc).
Here's the video
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Over ambitious scheduling. By the end of day 2 we were having to "settle" a lot on less than ideal takes just because we had to move on.
I Hae Typos
Member
For my first short film I decided I would not only write/direct, but DP as well. My heart is in the camera, and DP work, however being at school I was required to write and direct a small film. While I got all the shots I wanted and really loved the look of the film, I felt like I wasn't giving my actor enough direction or attention. It was really a push and pull situation, where I would either put my attention with the actor, or put it with the camera and composition.
Here it is if anyone's interested:
Here it is if anyone's interested:
colebennett
Active member
Ha! EXACT same experience for me! (Above) , and I'm also much more of a DP at heart.
I enjoyed your short film. Have you watched the movie "Rubber"? It came out last year - about a car tire that kills people with it's mind. Your film reminded me of that movie. Loved the score.
I Hae Typos
Member
No I haven't but now I have to! Looks insane!
Chris Adler
Veteran
I pushed the envelope and on my first short I had a child actor, a horse, and it was a period story. Also the lead was a pretty green actress that when coupled with a pretty green director made for an interesting set.
The only things that went wrong were directly related to my inexperience as a director. Working with the kid to get the shots took a lot longer than planned, and a big honking horse fly kept ruining our takes with the horse. Other than that, and a severe thunderstorm that took out a few hours of shooting time things went very well. The crew was all professional and we had no morale issues, backstabbing, or anything else. They were paid the minimum we could pay them and provide workman's comp, etc.
Given the number of things that could have been issues, I was very fortunate. But we earned a lot of that fortune due to very extensive planning in pre-production.
The only things that went wrong were directly related to my inexperience as a director. Working with the kid to get the shots took a lot longer than planned, and a big honking horse fly kept ruining our takes with the horse. Other than that, and a severe thunderstorm that took out a few hours of shooting time things went very well. The crew was all professional and we had no morale issues, backstabbing, or anything else. They were paid the minimum we could pay them and provide workman's comp, etc.
Given the number of things that could have been issues, I was very fortunate. But we earned a lot of that fortune due to very extensive planning in pre-production.
For many one-man-band films this is the standard. Sometimes I totally zone out, I mean totally, to the extent where you can literally speak to me and I won't hear a word. Comes with the territory, your mind can only process so much.
Grug
Veteran
My first substantial short film was a 15 minute gangster flick I made back in highschool, starring my various 14-15 year old friends. It was hugely ambitious for what it was, and that didn't make things any easier, but on our second day of shooting one of my actors rewound the DV tape we were shooting to (in order to review the scene he'd just been in), and then left the tape rewound - so when I went to pick up the camera and move on to the next scene. I recorded over a good 20 minutes of key material we'd just shot - and didn't discover this until over a week later when we ingested the footage for editing.
That was a tough one to cut around.
The worst thing though, was that when my teacher converted the film to VHS for presentation in class, he didn't check the audio - which got majorly messed up, and our music track jumped way up in volume to completely obscure all of the dialogue in the film - which I only discovered when the films were screened for our class. I almost cried I was so beside myself.
That was a tough one to cut around.
The worst thing though, was that when my teacher converted the film to VHS for presentation in class, he didn't check the audio - which got majorly messed up, and our music track jumped way up in volume to completely obscure all of the dialogue in the film - which I only discovered when the films were screened for our class. I almost cried I was so beside myself.
Darren Levine
Veteran
Well if we're talking very first videos shot i have to admit mine was backyard wrestling.... (i plead innocent, my best friends at the time slowly con'd me into shooting, then editing) though i may have to thank them for that, seeing as it's how i stepped into video and started learning editing.
but those were not quite along the lines of the OP, my first feature shoot was a skeleton crew with a friend from college/"film school", he's very humble and knows what he doesn't and trusted my abilities as the DP/Co editor and we worked incredibly well together, but that's probably not what the rest of the crew thought by the end of the shoot. we have arguments all the time, but their in our own sarcasm and humor and it worked just fine. if he asked me to do something that was bad filmmaking, i'd poke some humor but explain why we can't do it and offer the alternative. was a great time, 18 days, by the last shots we were indeed in less good humor but that happens
as for some advice. aside from whats already been said, just one thing can save a set: the roadhouse rule. now i'd like to clarify i came up with this FAR before i ever saw roadhouse, but it's exactly the same: no matter what anyone else does; Be Nice.
even when they are an idiot: Be Nice.
or when they are screwing up: Be Nice.
and especially when they get offensive: Be Nice.
Think about this: when was the last time you were able to get and/or stay in an agitated state when someone was being nice to you? It's not easy to remain enraged or upset/etc... when the person you're dealing with is being exceedingly nice back.
Granted, it's not going to fix every situation, but i have found without question that if you use the mentality that when you're talking to someone, talk to them like they are a close friend, you will get better results out of them.
i can give you a concrete example from literally today....
we are shooting on the sidewalk, i'm on shoulderCam. we cut because we hear a vacuum in the store we're next to. at this point the rest of the crew does what annoys me most about not fully experienced sets: they sit and wonder what to do about it. about 5 seconds pass and i get off cam and walk right into the store with big smile on my face and look at the two guys and said: hey guys! are you going to be cleaning for long? it's just that we can hear it on the video we're doing, we don't want to get in your way at all, if you could just let me know when you might be finishing we can do our shots after... and he responded pretty flatly that its cleaning day for them and they would be doing it all day... i then kindly asked if it was possible if they could clean the back of the store first then maybe that would help us(i was half calling the BS that they were in fact cleaning ALL day) and mentioned we weren't going to be shooting long. he thought it over a second and asked how much time we needed. i fired off 20minutes, and he thought another second and said OK, we can hold off for you.
BOOM, done. now what would have happened if i went in there and instead of asking, i TOLD them we needed them to shut up? if you don't put your needs above theirs, you will get farther.
we probably took more like 25/30 minutes, but we got it done, i just pushed the director a little faster.
and then, this i would argue is the most important part: i immediately handed off the cam to the AC and walked into the store and thanked the two guys. nothing elaborate, just pop your head in and put your hand up and say thanks so much!
There are supposed to be numerous other people on set to handle those situations instead of a DP, but i got it done to get it done. sometimes you need to step up if the need is there, especially on a small crew.
but those were not quite along the lines of the OP, my first feature shoot was a skeleton crew with a friend from college/"film school", he's very humble and knows what he doesn't and trusted my abilities as the DP/Co editor and we worked incredibly well together, but that's probably not what the rest of the crew thought by the end of the shoot. we have arguments all the time, but their in our own sarcasm and humor and it worked just fine. if he asked me to do something that was bad filmmaking, i'd poke some humor but explain why we can't do it and offer the alternative. was a great time, 18 days, by the last shots we were indeed in less good humor but that happens
as for some advice. aside from whats already been said, just one thing can save a set: the roadhouse rule. now i'd like to clarify i came up with this FAR before i ever saw roadhouse, but it's exactly the same: no matter what anyone else does; Be Nice.
even when they are an idiot: Be Nice.
or when they are screwing up: Be Nice.
and especially when they get offensive: Be Nice.
Think about this: when was the last time you were able to get and/or stay in an agitated state when someone was being nice to you? It's not easy to remain enraged or upset/etc... when the person you're dealing with is being exceedingly nice back.
Granted, it's not going to fix every situation, but i have found without question that if you use the mentality that when you're talking to someone, talk to them like they are a close friend, you will get better results out of them.
i can give you a concrete example from literally today....
we are shooting on the sidewalk, i'm on shoulderCam. we cut because we hear a vacuum in the store we're next to. at this point the rest of the crew does what annoys me most about not fully experienced sets: they sit and wonder what to do about it. about 5 seconds pass and i get off cam and walk right into the store with big smile on my face and look at the two guys and said: hey guys! are you going to be cleaning for long? it's just that we can hear it on the video we're doing, we don't want to get in your way at all, if you could just let me know when you might be finishing we can do our shots after... and he responded pretty flatly that its cleaning day for them and they would be doing it all day... i then kindly asked if it was possible if they could clean the back of the store first then maybe that would help us(i was half calling the BS that they were in fact cleaning ALL day) and mentioned we weren't going to be shooting long. he thought it over a second and asked how much time we needed. i fired off 20minutes, and he thought another second and said OK, we can hold off for you.
BOOM, done. now what would have happened if i went in there and instead of asking, i TOLD them we needed them to shut up? if you don't put your needs above theirs, you will get farther.
we probably took more like 25/30 minutes, but we got it done, i just pushed the director a little faster.
and then, this i would argue is the most important part: i immediately handed off the cam to the AC and walked into the store and thanked the two guys. nothing elaborate, just pop your head in and put your hand up and say thanks so much!
There are supposed to be numerous other people on set to handle those situations instead of a DP, but i got it done to get it done. sometimes you need to step up if the need is there, especially on a small crew.