What to upgrade, mic or recorder?

M

MattRozier

Member
Hi there, I'm hoping a sound genius out there might be able a few words of advice. I've been shooting for the last year or so using a NTG2 (with battery) plugged directly into a zoom h4n. I've also recently been shooting using a wired lav (the rode lavalier, sometimes wired and sometimes using a sennheiser g2 kit).

Ive noticed recently that the mic levels especially on the ntg2 seem crazy low, and when I push them up I'm getting a heap of background hiss. I've heard the ntg2 with zoom h4n isnt a great combination but I'm wondering how best to fix this and what the most cost effective solution may be?

I own a juicedlink cx211 preamp which I now sometimes use between the ntg2 and the zoom (though it doesn't have phantom power the mic takes a battery). The lack of power on the cx211 means I can't run the lav through it unfortunately.

If I were looking to get a hotter signal and less hiss and am on a budget, am I best to upgrade the zoom h4n for something like a zoom h6 or tascam d-60. Or am I looking at the wrong end of the pipeline and its the mic that needs upgrading? Any thoughts on settings? Or something else I could be missing? I'd really appreciate any words of wisdom :)
 
Something like a Sound Devices 302 mixer would be the next logical upgrade, along with a pair of variable pads to feed the H4n the proper impedance, and just use the H4n as a bit bucket. Then you have very solid building blocks, for when you replace the H4n.
 
Hey David, thanks for that, an SD 302 would be great but its quite an investment, whilst I'm building towards that is there anything else you'd recommend as a stepping stone? A zoom h6? A tascam dr60? A cloudlifter? Or a juicedlink contraption?
 
Certainly, as David suggests, getting a decent Sound Devices or similar preamp into your chain would help hugely with the ntg2 and other mics you might add: the sound devices mm-1 would be a lot cheaper for the same quality, but only one channel (but useful in your kit if you add a mixer later - e.g. for boom op), or - in the UK - audio developments ad071 is good value. Obviously, the zoom h4n doesn't take a proper line level input, so that may be an issue with some options if you want to avoid pads. I know it has had a few issues ( I think resolved) but the Fostex DC r302 has dropped its price hugely in the UK (e.g. £549 inc vat at Pink noise), which would be a step up for you, albeit aimed at the OMB and with less use if you plan to build a pro audio kit in the longer term. Cheers, Roland
 
A mixer would be one of your best upgrade paths, totally agree. But another thought would be to upgrade your shotgun mic to say an NTG-3. It has better sound, and a much hotter output, so the low mic level input from the NTG-2 would be solved and you get better sound in the process. If you sold the NTG-2 and purchased a used NTG-3, you might make the upgrade for around $300. There are other hot shotguns in the mid-price range also. Just thinking out load on different paths you might consider.

Also, if you don't need the extra channel a 302 offers, a MixPre D is a serious mixer option with digital conversion for less $$

Grant
 
First thing you do is get a field mixer. I'm more or less in your same position. Just picked up a used SD MixPre-D last month. A huge step up for me. It'll feed a mic level signal to DSLR or your recorder, or line level if you need it, or both at the same time if you need that.

I'm feeding mine with an AT4053B and can't believe how good it sounds. Never would have believed it, but it does make that much difference.
 
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MattRozier said:
I've been shooting for the last year or so using a NTG2 (with battery) plugged directly into a zoom h4n. [..] I own a juicedlink cx211 preamp which I now sometimes use between the ntg2 and the zoom
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I'm using a very similar setup here, which works fine for now, with a Tascam DR-05, NTG2 and the JuicedLink CX211. Everything works fine & records clean audio using the JL's internal preamp. It's not as compliant as a field recorder would be, but it works, and it's overall a cheap setup (price wise).
MattRozier said:
an SD 302 would be great but its quite an investment
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I've read about it as well, and thought pretty much the same. I don't know if you're doing this for a living, or plan to do such, but I (as a hobbyist) can't afford that step. I'm aiming towards a Tascam DR-100MkII though. Seems like the next logical step, as I don't think I'll ever need a professional sound mixer myself.
 
drapeama said:
I don't know if you're doing this for a living, or plan to do such, but I (as a hobbyist) can't afford that step. I'm aiming towards a Tascam DR-100MkII though. Seems like the next logical step, as I don't think I'll ever need a professional sound mixer myself.
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^^^ And this should be a huge consideration when making equipment purchases ^^^

Business vs Hobby & want vs need.

Audio & video can become a very expensive hobby if you let it, and to be very honest, if I were not doing this professionally, there is no way I would have this kind of money wrapped up in audio & video gear. I learned my lesson years back when my hobby was campaigning my Lola T70 on the historic race circuit.
 
The zooms get bad press from video people, and good press from studio/location recording people. The snag seems to be that the studio people spend time and energy getting microphones into the best places, so that level is rarely a problem. Video people usually end up with their mics in a less than ideal place, outside the frame of the camera. Needing a Spinal tap extra section on the gain control seems to cause the grief. My live audio/recording digital mixer has excellent preamps but turn the gain up enough to hear a fly farting, and it hisses and sounds not so hot. It's never a problem, because the gain sits much. much lower than this for everyday work. Video people do seem to need preamps quiet enough to cope with too low level from the mics - and there is a cost implication to what really is less than ideal mic technique requiring 'fixing' by equipment. No surprise the cost implication is very high, with no cheap solution, other than getting the mic in closer!
 
As a hobbyist, I'm also pleased with the results I get for <$500 - used Sound Devices MixPre (non-D model) runnng line out into line in on a Tascam DR-05. With the XLRs on my XF100, I now have 4 clean inputs with phantom switching options - two in camera and two not tethered to the camera. The DR-05 has plugin power, so that even gives me an additional use for the lavs from my Senn. G2 wireless.
 
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