What THEY don't want YOU to know about PRE-AMPS!

Taste the tears Steve... taste the tears of joy.

While I'm still digging the hell out of the 671 and the FP-24... there is certainly no magic happening... it's just a case of better gear sounding better.

FYI you can get a brand new 671 on ebay right now for $799 shipped! That is freaky cheap man... that's less then I paid for "insider pricing"... and a full $220 cheaper then B and something.
 
Wow, fun thread :)

Great preamps really shine when you have a quiet room. You can crank the hell out of the gain and still hear very little noise. In a noisy environment you generally hear all the other crap masking the noise. Since a lot people using cheap equipment don't bother to control the environment they wouldn't notice the difference between good and bad preamps.

Not many have the interest in sound to peel the onion the way Matt does. Good stuff :thumbsup:
 
MattinSTL said:
FYI you can get a brand new 671 on ebay right now for $799 shipped!
Click to expand...

...what about the Oade mod?
He made some pretty interesting mods to the 660 and now 671 (with the advanced mod coming out this month on the 671).
In the advanced mod of the 660, he rips all sorts of things (that you may not need) out of the 660 and puts in better preamps.
Well, read all about it:

660 mods

671 mods

BTW, you can only get the mod if you buy the whole unit from them.
 
Yeah... I know. Doug also said there's no point in running a 660 or 671 line-in with his mods... they only affect mic-in for these machines.

"But Doug... I want to use a MixPre and feed it line-in!"

"Why... that won't sound as good as a modded unit running mic-in."

"Are you telling me that you make up the 27db in SN with the mic-in mod?"

"Trust me... it won't sound any better running the MixPre line-in."

"What if I WANT the MixPre as a tool for other stuff also? Like when I don't want to bother running double sound... or for the convenience of it's easy level adjustments? Or for the times when I want a top-grade pre for other gear? Will it sound WORSE with the MixPre?"

"With dialog you probably won't hear the difference."

For me that was enough reason to go with a stock machine... but yeah, unless you're going to run a pre-amp you'd be WISE to get your machine from Doug, either modded OR stock, 'cause otherwise your stuck without the option of getting the mods later.
 
I hope I'm not restating something that's been said, but I didn't see much discussion on certain points in the earlier posts. (Sorry, I've been away a while...)

1) Preamps don't just add gain, and S/N ratio is not the only important signal difference. Preamps have very wide effects on the mic signal. Many of the most revered and expensive preamps (e.g., Neve) are so revered because of the "color" that they impart to the signal - "warmth", "punchiness", etc. Other preamps are prized for their transparency - they try to be nothing but gain... but you have to spend a lot to even get close (e.g., Millennia HV-3).

2) Different mics act differently in combination with different preamps. This has to do with many factors, including "speed" of the preamp, input impedence, mic sensitivity (output voltage), transformers, phantom power, etc. That is why many sound engineers will favor not a mic or a preamp, but a specific mic/preamp combination. But indeed, the preamp does have an effect on the mic, and you're best off thinking of the two as a system. If you doubt this... well, go play with a ribbon mic and a variable impedence preamp for a good demonstration.

-Barry
 
MattinSTL said:
Yeah... I know. Doug also said there's no point in running a 660 or 671 line-in with his mods... they only affect mic-in for these machines.
Click to expand...


Interesting. I guess they are defending their decision to rip out the line-in. Although, I believe the mic-in can go to line level after mod.
 
Yeah... it can vidled... (hey I just figured out your avatar... man am I stupid)... anyway a 660 with the ACM mod can take a +14... that's HUGE and yeah, that's line-level. The thing is in the breakdown on Doug's pages he lists a 6db gain in the SN from one mod to the next... and like I said, I just had a hard time seeing how he could close a 27db gap... I'm not saying they DON'T do that... 'cause they surely could... but Doug seemed really puzzled why I'd express interest in a MixPre and still be talking to him about a modded Marantz. It was almost like I was speaking Chinese.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that since Doug does line-in mods on other gear... and won't touch the line-in on the 671... I suspect that he might not be able to improve it much?

Honestly, after playing around with this setup so far I'm not so sure I shouldn't have just got a modded marantz and dumped the pre-amp idea for now... I could still phantom the mic, get perfectly recorded sound, adjust levels, and run a line-out to the G2 for a wireless guide track. Plus I'm already really happy with the sound of the Marantz with mic OR line-in... Marantz lists the 671 as having a 65db SN for mic-in, which sounds crazy low, but the thing sounds really good... so? Also the line-in sounds the same but with less hiss. The way I'm testing the difference in hiss is to record at max gain with no mic attached and then max gain with no line-in attached... it's easy to hear the difference in SN between mic and line... but when I'm recording they both sound great.

I also notice that there are qualities imparted by the 671 pre-amp and the FP24... both of them sound much fatter the the DVX. (in a good way) When I use my AKG on the DVX I can't really force a good proximity effect to help my wimpy voice... but with the marantz I can almost Barry White the damn thing. (exaggerating, but it's still a big diff)
 
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