What should I get?

J

JohnFB

Member
Hey, I got a t2i and I've been getting awesome shots, I've so far have had my actor(buddy) talk into my 5$ mic in my house and sync it up to the audio of him talking on the camera, and I added Foley/ambiance sounds from a library I have but this is pretty troublesome, however it does seem to work well. What I kind of want to do is to be able to record my own sound effects (dropping a tin can, footsteps etc.) and my own ambiance, and I also would like to get a better mic to try to dub over the footage, or maybe a shotgun mic to try and catch it during the scene and see how that works out.

So you guys have probably seen these two products mentioned everywhere by now, but

I was thinking of getting the Zoom H1 as a external recorder for recording ambiance / sounds / singing into (yes, my dream of becoming a singer in a rock star band continues..)

and I was thinking of getting the Rhode Videomic to plugin to the Zoom H1, and maybe try to position it on stand near where the scene would take place and aim it at the actors mouth, or could get some guys to help us with a painters pole or something. Would this work out well for capturing the actors voice? Or do you think I'd be better off with wireless mics hidden on them as I only want to get the vocals and I would like them to be clear without background noise

I have barely any experience with audio in the field, but I'm pretty experienced in post (not so much for audio, but I've done enough to know the basics) usually what I read around here is these two items will give you "marginal" audio, but if I could fix em up in post remove bg noise/normalize/eq/etc think I could get them sounding good?

Budgets 250$, I did get a budget camera so in my eyes I should get budget audio (well not so much a budget camera, but soon it's going to be when those new "real" video cameras come out with the same stuff built into them)

I'm thinking maybe I should just get the Zoom H1, and some wireless mics, maybe i'll have all my actors put some skin makeup and have a giant bump all right next to their cheeks, hide it in there no1 will notice i hope
 
1) Browse the forum, and use the search function. This same question was just asked a few days ago. Pay attention to what UncleBob has to say in the answers.

2) A "budget camera" like the T2i can still make some incredible images. Deciding that you should also get "budget audio" is a backwards mentality, as cheap audio doesn't work the same way. If you cannot buy, rent.

3) Check out the "Sound for Film and Television" DVD, and learn from it.
 
I wouldn't call $250 'budget audio' it's just cheap. What did you spend on the camera? $7-800? There's your starting point, and frankly thats a little low.
 
Thanks for that DVD suggestion, it seems it would teach me alot about audio I'd love to get it sometime but I'm broke atm with the recession and holidays and everything.

UncleBob basically is saying don't cheap out on audio, buy phantom, xlr and a 500$ boompole, thing is man I'm not making holy wood films and working with big crews. I'm literally on a budget here, I don't even have the 'budget' money I mentioned, it'll take me a month to get it hopefully.

I'm still using the kit lens on the T2i and I'm fine with it, people tell me to throw it away :\ and buy a 1000$ L glass but I'm getting fantastic shots with what I have.

So in the sense of getting a kit lens for audio would the H1 recorder be good? As I mentioned I wanted something to record Ambiance tracks, sound effects etc so I thought the H1 would work well for that (doesn't it record the same freq as the H2 or H4 i forgot)

And then I needed something to try and get vocals from people, Is it possible to hook two wireless mics to two actors and have it record into the H1? I was thinking I could do this and get multiple recording tracks and I could pan the audio in the program, but then I thought it'll probably record both onto the same track and maybe this won't be such a good idea.

Second thought was of course the shotgun mic, hooked to a painters pole, connected to the h1, and held above the actor.

Would the wireless idea I have work? Would I be better off getting a cheap shotgun mic?


I probably should just order online when I have the money and test everything out myself instead of bothering you guys with this, but I generally like to get information about things first.

Thanks
 
JohnFB I'm going to state the obvious here. While I totally get you are not trying to achieve results that are "hollywood" quality
I have to reinforce the fact that a piece of gear is useless without knowing HOW to use it.

Whether or not you spend $60 on a DVD or you spend the next 500 hrs reading every audio forum you can find you MUST learn what you're
supposed to do with the gear once you have it. Whether you are using a 10 dollar painters pole or a $900 dollar boom pole without knowing how/where to place it
your results will be awful with either one.

I strongly encourage you before you even plug whatever setup you go with in, that you do the extensive homework you need.
The gear is absolutely positively 2nd to that.
 
Look, what you're asking is a question of quality, and what's acceptable to you is only something you can decide. You're asking people who obtain professional audio for a living, and we know what it takes to get that. You're asking for the budget solution, we'll the truth is that the "budget" solution costs more than you're willing to spend. Your solution and what you feel gives you acceptable quality depends on you. For example, I know people who feel the T2i isn't a good enough camera to shoot on, but others who feel that consumer grade HDV cameras give great results. It's something you have to decide for yourself based on your opinion and what your doing.

Of the two things you suggested, the shotgun would work better. Wireless has a lot of pitfalls and is very expensive to get anything reliable.


Note: The quality issue changes in other circumstances. When someone is paying you, it becomes about what they expect and what you agree to do. Also, any film you want to put into festivals or sell must be up to the quality standards of the festival/distribution company.
 
I'm in a similar category. I have a t2i. Got some decent lenses. Editing computer and so forth and H4n for audio. I'm looking at the ntg-2 or ntg-3 for audio now which is gonna be some cash. My best advice is get a good recorder and play with sound. That's what i've done and save for the mic. I know I need a mixer too - mix pre is next on the list sound guys. I am listening - no pun intended. It takes time to build an arsenal when you're starting out. If you want to make many movies and not just one then it's good to take time to invest. But you have to start somewhere. Hope I'm right. Listen to c2v. He knows sound :)
 
C2V said:
Pay attention to what UncleBob has to say in the answers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

JohnFB- I can appreciate your position; I've been there, done that and have the T-shirt.

The problem, however, is that you eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. Even the Zoom H4n and Tascam DR-100 are "compromise" pieces of gear; they were never, ever intended to be used as production sound recorders; they were aimed at musicians and are really insufficient as film/video production sound recorders. Yet now that they are an accepted ultra-low-low indie budget compromise tool people now want something even less expensive!

At that budget level I would only be guessing. You can DIY a boom-pole, shock-mount and wind protection, then stick a Zoom H1 on the end, and it will probably work. However, you have no way of monitoring the sound. You have no way of knowing if it is even working once it is out over the talent. You're going to have problems in audio post since it is recording in stereo, and you will probably have all kinds of noise problems. If you decide to get a mic it will either have to be Hi-Z (High Impedance) which is very prone to RF (Radio Frequency) interference (which includes florescent lighting and all types of electronics), or, if it is a Low-Z (Low Impedance) mic, it will have to supply its own phantom power, and those mics are much, much fewer in number and more expensive, or you will have to purchase separate phantom power supplies.

Every minute/dollar you spend on production sound will save you at least ten in audio post.

Now you see why we "argue" against these miniscule budget solutions; they have numerous inherent problems and eventually cost more money or have to be completely replaced outright. The other side of our perspective is we have the knowledge, experience and expertise to make some of these budget solutions work which you do not. I'm not throwing stones here; I wouldn't know an F-stop from a bus stop. That's why there are craft specialists like myself; and, to be honest, my specialty is audio post. I do, however, use (rent) a lot of production sound gear when I go into the field to record sound FX.

So if you want to get the H1 and the Rode VideoMic go right ahead. Just be aware that you will now have many more problems on-set and A LOT more work to do when it comes time to do audio post. Let us know how it works out.
 
Over the last year I bought a Zoom H4 for about $100, and an Oktava MK-012 for about $150. You just have to wait and pounce on the opportunity... In both cases, I had to wait until the end bid was going to be under 1/2 the 'new' and in the case of the Zoom, at least 30% of the 'new model, new price'...

You definitely will not get 'wireless' mics that 'work' for the price that you indicated...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top