What mics do you use?

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello Listers,

When I record ambience or similar non-vocal audio, I use whatever mic(s) I have been using on set. But what about FX in general? I want to get beyond just choosing a small condenser for interior and a shotgun outside; sure if i'm inside, I don't want room issues. What is your criteria? Do you choose based on location or sound. I'd like to start recording some random sounds and am curious how the pros do this. Do you have a field kit?

TIA for your thoughts
Grant
 
Bring the best mics you have with you, record and listen on good monitor headphones. Do you need isolated sounds, environment sounds, stereo, 3D etc? Mid-side and ambisonic provide the most flexibility in post. For example, ambisonic can capture shotgun, cardioid, hyper/super cardioid, omni, 5.1, 7.1, 9.2: any pickup pattern and number of channels. While dedicated mics doing e.g. double mid-side with Schoeps will sound better, those setups are more complex and $$$.
 
Different mics for different sounds, really.

I carry an SFX kit with me when I travel, and I keep it rigged on set for narrative so that I can break away during MOS and down time if I hear something interesting. It’s based around a MixPre-6.

For ambient tracks I have a Shure VP-88 for the stereo spread, and I keep a cable connected so I can grab my shotgun to focus in on details if I want (for example: stereo wide of a mountain stream, detail focus on water rippling over a rock... recording them at the same time kills two birds with one stone).

I have an XY bracket for mounting two small condensers for another stereo option.

Boundary mics and contact mics can come in handy for grabbing strange sounds.

A couple of SM57/58 or similar mics stay in my kit for close-micing of loud/high-SPL sounds. I’ve rigged these on roller coasters to get the sounds of the wheel assembly on the tracks, and rigged in car engine compartments and next to exhaust.

Also an RE20 for close-micing of high SPL sources, often paired with a distance-mic’d LDC or shotgun. This is helpful for recording gun shots, since the RE20 can handle the initial percussion and the LDC or shotgun can grab the detail. I’ll add a stereo array behind the firing position to capture spread and decay. Another stereo pair run 100’ away can get the distant perspective sound, or for live fire a stereo array downrange. I’ve recorded guns quite well with 4 channels, but if I add the distance perspective I move to the MixPre-10T.

And, of course, plenty of shock and wind protection for everything in the kit.

I also have a small, handheld recorder with shockmount, wind protection, and pistol grip that I keep on hand to grab stuff when I need to work quickly and without setting up several mics.

Next on my list is to get an Ambisonic mic (RØDE NT-SF1).
 
interesting as I have a pair of AT-4050 that have a fig-8 option. I don't know much about this option since it is more musically oriented. I have also read about taking two fig-8 mics and placing them similar to an X-Y setup. Apparently produces a more detailed stereo effect with some caveats related to distance from the source.
 
Alex H. said:
Different mics for different sounds, really.

I carry an SFX kit with me when I travel, and I keep it rigged on set for narrative so that I can break away during MOS and down time if I hear something interesting. It’s based around a MixPre-6.

For ambient tracks I have a Shure VP-88 for the stereo spread, and I keep a cable connected so I can grab my shotgun to focus in on details if I want (for example: stereo wide of a mountain stream, detail focus on water rippling over a rock... recording them at the same time kills two birds with one stone).

I have an XY bracket for mounting two small condensers for another stereo option.

Boundary mics and contact mics can come in handy for grabbing strange sounds.

A couple of SM57/58 or similar mics stay in my kit for close-micing of loud/high-SPL sounds. I’ve rigged these on roller coasters to get the sounds of the wheel assembly on the tracks, and rigged in car engine compartments and next to exhaust.

Also an RE20 for close-micing of high SPL sources, often paired with a distance-mic’d LDC or shotgun. This is helpful for recording gun shots, since the RE20 can handle the initial percussion and the LDC or shotgun can grab the detail. I’ll add a stereo array behind the firing position to capture spread and decay. Another stereo pair run 100’ away can get the distant perspective sound, or for live fire a stereo array downrange. I’ve recorded guns quite well with 4 channels, but if I add the distance perspective I move to the MixPre-10T.

And, of course, plenty of shock and wind protection for everything in the kit.

I also have a small, handheld recorder with shockmount, wind protection, and pistol grip that I keep on hand to grab stuff when I need to work quickly and without setting up several mics.

Next on my list is to get an Ambisonic mic (RØDE NT-SF1).
Click to expand...


Thanks for the great replay Alex, just the type of input I was looking for. Had heard that stereo shotguns were used for FX, will look at the VP88 or similar.
 
ggrantly said:
interesting as I have a pair of AT-4050 that have a fig-8 option. I don't know much about this option since it is more musically oriented. I have also read about taking two fig-8 mics and placing them similar to an X-Y setup. Apparently produces a more detailed stereo effect with some caveats related to distance from the source.
Click to expand...

That’s called Blumlein. It’s a really fantastic way to record music. Not sure I’d use it for recording SFX out in the wild. Stick with single-point MS and XY.

The VP-88 is a fine mic, and also take a look at the NT4 from RØDE. (Ideally, one of each for versatility... a well-stocked mic locker for SFX, just like for studio or stage, is an invesment.)

When I’m traveling for pleasure, I do keep my small kit on hand (great way to build an SFX library), and my simplified kit consists of the MixPre-6, the VP-88, and the NTG-3.
 
SFX recording is most of what I record. Alex's set up is fairly close to what a lot of FX recordists have. I have yet to know an FX recordist who records surround on any regular basis. That is mostly because it's hard to integrate in post and it captures A perspective and that perspective is not going to generally be what you need. The times I have seen it done were for something very specific for a certain shot. Generally a recordist has two goals. First there is the list of stuff the current project needs and second there is the "Library". So if I'm recording a Lotus for instance and the film needs some by's and maybe a pull up and door open close, I will record all of those but I will also "cover the car". So trunk, hood, glove box, seat belts, windows, both doors, starting, etc. And if possible I will mic up the car and cover driving in a bunch of different ways and tire chirps etc. The last group is a lot more "invasive" so you need an owner that is OK with it.

When I'm done I can feed the sounds the film needs to the editors but I also now have a "Lotus library" and next time I may well just be able to pull sounds from my library.

90% of what I record with is a fairly narrow stereo pair. Personally I have a pair of Oktava's but I have also used Neumann pairs and Schoeps pairs. The Neumann pair were capsules on their collet system so the whole zeppelin was a ball about the size of a grapefruit.

It depends a lot on what you are recording and how you are recording it. The stereo pair works for most things and you can angle it to favor the left side (the side most editors I have worked with will take when going mono). I also have a hyper when I know I will just be doing mono, but in the field it is often a plus to have less gear to haul around and you sometimes don't have the luxury of time and a relatively clean place to swap out gear. So when in doubt I go with the pair. We use shotguns surprisingly rarely, but it's important to be able to grab one when needed. We actually used it more on the Foley stage than in the field.

A dynamic like the SM58 is very useful in the field, and pretty much required for micing exhausts on cars. They are close to unbreakable and can handle a LOT of sound, and can be made pretty wind proof with some foam.

An ADR editor always carried a RE20 with him because it was near impossible to overload. He used it for crowd walla when there was shouting or screaming involved. I was looking for one when my guy at the pro shop convinced me to try out a PR40 from Heil. I liked it and found it to work as well as the RE20 and it's a bit "clearer" to my ears, so that is what I carry but the RE20 is a great mic. It will also handle LOUD but I wouldn't strap one to a dangerous location like close to exhaust pipes.

A handheld recorder is also great to have. If you cary it around you will find it has the best mic for the job, because you happen to be carrying it when something interesting was happening and didn't have time to go get your "real" gear. The "best" part is because like the old Woody Allen quote 89% is showing up.

They sound pretty decent generally but the big plus is you can pull it out in about 30 sec. and be recording.

A mic I always carry that Alex didn't mention is a contact mic. You can get some amazing other world sound by slapping one on just about anything that moves, and some things that don't. What you are recording sounds nothing like what you normally hear. Well the exception being acoustic instruments. The sounds will rarely be used for what was actually making the sound since it almost never sounds like what you associate with the visual, but they are a sound designer/ editors playscape. There is probably no Alan Splet films that don't have some contact mic sounds in them. You can IMDB the name but basically all of David Lynch's and Carroll Balard's films. And as an extra sweetener you don't have to spend hardly anything to get them. You can spend a bunch on a commercial one or you can wire up a piezo buzzer to a mic jack. If you are trying to do an "accurate" recording of an instrument it's probably worth it to get a tuned professional one but for SFX recording not so much. And since you are making it you can cut them to whatever size you want. Size and shape will affect response but they will all pick up interesting things. I picked up some the other day for $.50 apiece.

Skywalker had a kit with the VP-88. It worked OK my issues with it were logistic rather than sound. First off it weighs a ton (OK not an actual ton but what feels like about twice what the Neumann pair weighs) and when recording ambiences and BG's you are going to be standing and holing the mic for three minutes or more trying to not move. That gets a lot harder to do with the added weight. The other wasn't exactly a knock but one of the "benifits" is the ability to go from wide to narrow, but the switch is on the mic body so you have to get the zeppelin off to make the switch. If you also have a dead cat on the thing it is just a lot faster/easier to switch to a second mic. So I found it not to be a real benefit and hardly anybody I worked with ever switched it from the wide stereo position.

Related sort of...
Technique:

Anything like BG's and ambiences you wand a long unchanging hunk. As a rule we considered anything under 1.5 min not worth saving. It's just too short and you are going to have to loop it in most scenes and there is always something that happens you don't want in so you have to assume only about 1/2 the recording will actually be usable. Our goal was three minutes or more. If you have never timed out trying to stand still for three minutes... It's a LONG time. So brace your self, sit if you can, lean against a wall etc. If you are in an urban environment standing still for three minutes will get someone to call 911, unless it looks like there is an innocent reason you are standing there. So a bus stop will help. Smoking could work but it involves movement and sound so... One of the best I have found is a cel phone. I actually keep an old garbage one for just that. It's not connected so it's not screwing up my recording it's old and cheap so nobody will want to steal it. If I remembered to charge it I can use it's timer so I don't have to look at the recorder. The other urban trick is to not look like you are recording. The phone helps a lot. Just look tired of listening to musak, pretend you just called Microsoft customer support, that is good for about 1/2 hour...
I also have strapped the zeppelin to the bag so I'm not actually holding the mic. If you swap out earbuds or put one ear muff up so you can put your phone there nobody thinks you are recording. I have also strapped the zeppelin facing backward so it is recording what is behind me, it actually makes it a bit easier since you are hearing with out seeing so you have a more accurate impression of what you are getting. One big advantage is if you do not look like you are recording nobody comes up to you and asks you "are you recording", which I can almost guarantee will happen otherwise and ruin your recording.
 
Noiz2 said:
A mic I always carry that Alex didn't mention is a contact mic.
Click to expand...

Ahem... :D

Alex H. said:
Boundary mics and contact mics can come in handy for grabbing strange sounds.
Click to expand...

Grant, try adhering the contact mic to things like sheet metal, cookware, apple boxes, and trash cans. Rub, scratch, and slap the surfaces of these items and see what you get. Hella fun to play with. Record at 96kHz and you can really push them in post with pitch and time to make some very other-worldly sounds.

I mentioned boundary mics not because they do strange things like contact mics (they don’t... they’re just basic condenser mics), but I like them on occasion because they can be placed in odd places, on flat surfaces, and will capture what’s around without picking up vibrations from the surface on which they’re mounted. It’s just another tool to play with and see where creativity takes you.
 
Have you used the AT-4050 set to figure-8 and along with a directional mic for mid-side and experimented with decoding/spread in post? Lots of free plugins (if not available in your favorite sound tools): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1103984-mid-side-plugin.html

https://blog.audio-technica.com/aud...d-audio-technica-microphones-part-3-mid-side/

You can use a variety of directional mics for the mid with different results (including the other 4050 set to cardioid: https://www.uaudio.com/blog/mid-side-mic-recording/ See also the AT-4050 ST.
). AT also makes the BP4029, which is a MS shotgun (decent mic, not really pro level as the side is a little (self) noisy, but could work outdoors). You can add another directional mic pointing backwards for double mid side: https://bgilbertsound.com/2011/02/21/more-fun-with-5-1-the-double-mid-side-technique/ (as you can see, the front/back mid mics can be different types). With just 3 tracks you can get 5.1.

Ambisonic with 4 tracks can capture 3D sound directionality, and plugins can display sound energy from their source direction in real-time during playback. Additionally, since the sound is captured in 3D, ambisonic can be decoded into any number of channels and any type of mic pickup pattern can be emulated. Does it sound as good as a bunch of discrete mics pointed in different directions? Not yet, most ambisonic software is first order, which means the "sweet spot' (multi-speakers) is relatively small, and the sound localization is somewhat smeared or blurry. It's possible to upsample first order to higher orders, the pay off for the increased complexity is tighter spatialization: e.g. you can hear better directionality during playback. To really tighten the sound, a lot more than 4 mics are needed. Probably will need a custom array with ADCs builtin: 1st order is (O + 1)^2 = (1+1=2)^2 = 4 channels (current ambisonic mics). 4th order 32 channels, 7th order is 64 channels and so on.

The Ambisonic Toolkit is free, and you can use mono and stereo sounds placed in 3D in addition to decoding and manipulating ambisonic recordings. Pretty good quality and it's free: http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ (works with Reaper, which is free for students and low cost for commercial use).

Also free, up to 7th order ambisonics: http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015

HarpX is pretty good (paid), and has a nice plugin: https://harpex.net/index.html

I find that binaural recording from ambisonically-produced audio provides the best playback experience: anyone with headphones can hear the material (vs. 5.1, 7.1 etc.). Another interesting aspect of ambisonically produced material (again, can be created without an ambisonic mic), is that interactive 3D can be used in real-time, with headtrackers for VR/AR etc. YouTube supports 4 track ambisonic for 360 audio-video playback.
 
Thanks again for the great comments; real quality contributions.

Interesting comments regarding stereo shotguns. On one hand, the simplicity is a huge asset; just plug it in and record, but maybe XY renders better quality due to the variety of available mics and adjustability. I have done a bit of X-Y with both LDCs and SDCs. It takes a few minutes to setup for sure; wires, mounts, stand, maybe BBGs. Not a huge deal, but more than you want for recording a casual moment. I suppose that's the reason they stick mics on all the cheapo recorders. We all have one right?

Regarding the usefulness of the dynamic SM58 on loud sources; Is there any love for an RE50 in the same regard? Singers don't use them, but it has been a pretty honest sounding mic to me and it has shock and isolation built in so quick to deploy and plenty tough.

Blumlein Pattern was what I had heard about and sounds like an interesting alternative to XY. I have used my LDCs for XY recording of an acoustic quartet and it sounded surprisingly good for a set it and forget it recording. I'd be curious to compare the two methods which could be done with the same mics since my 4050's have a figure 8 setting.

JSC: you made my brain explode with your posting. I've got a bit of learning before I tackle ambisonic although maybe the new all in one mics will open some doors to this.

Best Regards
 
ggrantly said:
Interesting comments regarding stereo shotguns. On one hand, the simplicity is a huge asset; just plug it in and record, but maybe XY renders better quality due to the variety of available mics and adjustability.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify: “Stereo shotgun” is not a blanket term for every single-point stereo mic array. While there are some specialty stereo shotgun mics out there, mics like the VP-88 and NT4 are not shotguns.

I like the single-point mics and I can get what I want and need out of them. As I said in my first post, I do have XY hardware for small-diaphragm condensers that I use from time to time.

For SFX recording out in the wild, I would not typically pack LDCs. They take a buttload of windscreening and are bulky and clumsy. I do drag one out, as I mentioned, for recording gun shots. I’ll be recording some Civil War (reproduction) canons in the next few weeks, and may take my 4050 out there with me, but outside of specialty projects I don’t consider those to be part of my default SFX kit.

ggrantly said:
Regarding the usefulness of the dynamic SM58 on loud sources; Is there any love for an RE50 in the same regard? Singers don't use them, but it has been a pretty honest sounding mic to me and it has shock and isolation built in so quick to deploy and plenty tough.
Click to expand...

The RE50 wouldn’t be my first choice. It’s optimized for spoken voice (read: mid-rangey) to cut reporters out above cluttered environments. Singers don’t use them because vocals for music need a wider frequency response. For SFX recording, I don’t like missing the low lows and the high highs.

ggrantly said:
I've got a bit of learning before I tackle ambisonic although maybe the new all in one mics will open some doors to this.
Click to expand...

Just be aware that binaural and ambisonic surround recording are mostly specialized for VR. Binaural is really only effective when listening through headphones. It’s pretty much a waste of time outside of that.

As Scott mentioned, most ambient tracks for sound design are gathered as a traditional stereo recording. Ambisonic mics are being touted for narrative sound design, but any instances of that right now are exceptions and not the rule. I still want one, but it’s not going to be my go-to.
 
ggrantly said:
JSC: you made my brain explode with your posting. I've got a bit of learning before I tackle ambisonic although maybe the new all in one mics will open some doors to this.
Click to expand...

Since you've got two AT4050's, you can start with mid-side (if you haven't tried it yet). Set one mic to cardioid, the other to figure 8. The cardioid will be the front, and the figure 8, mounted rotated 90 degrees to the front will be the side. Mount them as lined up as possible (coincident), e.g. one upside down directly above the other. Record both channels with the same level (doesn't have to be perfect, you can tweak in post). Pick your plugin (I use MSED- free: https://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ ), and apply to the two-channel/stereo track and experiment with the settings. You'll learn what is 'right' by ear, even if you forget which channel was mid and which was side. An interesting aspect of mid-side is the 3D-ness of the recording. Many times I've turned around for a door opening/footsteps only to realize it's in the recording, on both speakers and headphones- it's pretty cool (AT BP4029 as well as a figure 8 ribbon and cardioid LDC (totally different types of mics can be used)).

Mid-side (two channels) is really not hard, and pretty fun once you figure it out, especially as you play back the recording and hear it change from mono to super wide stereo and everything in between as you tweak the controls.

You'll learn that you can get 3 channels, L, C, R from just two channels, which is pretty cool. Then you'll understand how it's possible to get 5.1 from just adding another directional mic pointing backwards (could be 6.1, since you can get 3 more channels). .1 is just all the channels mixed and using a very low pass filter (keep only the very low frequencies for the sub).

Ambisonic is really just another channel added to double mid side (which is planar 3D around your head without no elevation), arranged a bit differently, still using the same principles of directionality and phase to get full 3D with added elevation.

AR/VR/Mixed Reality/360 video is a growing market. Knowing how to work with ambisonic (again, you don't need an ambisonic mic to create an ambisonic mix suitable for real-time use) will increase your skillset and open more possibilities for gigs as that market grows.

For engine sounds while driving, I used cheap Radio Shack condensers (tiny) taped to the back of my Z06 to record samples for a simulator I wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydlEEVrY3qg. As long as you don't clip, the results can be pretty excellent. The samples were 'pitch linearized' so they could be looped and pitched in real-time as RPM changes.

Edit: the engine sounds were linearized by Greg Hill of Soundwave Concepts: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/ho...-and-develop-the-engines-noises-in-car-games/ , http://www.soundwaveconcepts.com.au/index.html . He produces a lot more samples than I ended up using. For example both on an off throttle (that's all I used), inside car stereo, outside car, transmission noise, engine noise (in addition to exhaust: gears, valves, injectors, etc.), wind noise, etc. He's pretty cool and will probably answer any questions regarding recording gear if you contact him, especially if you're just learning.
 
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Thinking about some possible FX and how to record them, I have a 3' x 8' sheet of 28ga galvanized. Like flashing but in a large sheet. If you pick it up it is very flexible and if you whip it back and forth, it make a great thunderclap noise. Depending on how hard you whip it, the sounds vary from mild to wild. I've been wanting to record this sound for some time and I'll try some of the techniques mentioned here. A stereo effect might be really interesting. Would a contact mic be of any use here?
 
ggrantly said:
Thinking about some possible FX and how to record them, I have a 3' x 8' sheet of 28ga galvanized. Like flashing but in a large sheet. If you pick it up it is very flexible and if you whip it back and forth, it make a great thunderclap noise. Depending on how hard you whip it, the sounds vary from mild to wild. I've been wanting to record this sound for some time and I'll try some of the techniques mentioned here. A stereo effect might be really interesting. Would a contact mic be of any use here?
Click to expand...

It would certainly be an option to play with! I’d put at least two on there, on opposite ends, maybe one in the center. Vibrations will vary, and you can experiment with panning in post.

Get a recording with regular mics as well.
 
What you have there is a small version of what was quite common in theatres of yor known as a thunder sheet. They would hang back stage and have a handle on the bottom so you could shake them. Also used on old radio shows. A contact mic might sound really interesting. I have some wonderful sounds from chainlink fences and barbed wire. Bridges can be interesting and I know someone who put one on a RR track. One problem today with the last two is that you are likely to get questioned (or worse) by people in uniform.
 
I wonder what a figure 8 would do, placed close by in the middle. Dang, this is contagious imagining the possibilities.

Now I just need some idle hours to play.
 
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